Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections?

[fbastos]

and you thought $70 was expensive, wait until the engineers get done with the $80,000 ashtray and the $400,000 chair with all it's controls and the $2,000,000 HUD to let you see whats already there

For that money folks should also get the Squeezable Bobblin'-Head Dolls of Frag and Mogami!!

To alleviate tensions, you know..

F.

[Tophat]

Someone mentioned the "FRENCH" in this thread,nothing good can come of that!

Good, release the patch mondaynight then I can work on my japanese turn allnight and pearl harbor my designated voting site at OH too Early! Some 10 mins later I can look for one of the many lawyers stakingout our precincts here in ohio and claim disenfranchisement/intimidation so my boy has a legal pretext to dispute the election!

[Williamb]

No frenching allowed in this thread PLEASE !! [:-]

[Chijohnaok2]

Just saw Cheney on Fox saying that if Kerry is elected there will be no patch.

I think I just saw Kerry claim that the delay in the release of the patch is due to the ineptitude of the Bush administration.

Come to think of it, has there been a headline of any kind in the last few weeks where Kerry didn't blame things on Bush??

I'm suprised that Kerry missed an obvious opening...He did not leap to an obvious conclusion and blame Ashlee Simpson's lip-synching fiasco @ Saturday Night Live on George Bush [;)]

[Tankerace]

Don't forget, according to Kerry, global warming is Bush's fault, the fact the World hates us is Bush's fault, the fact he got sent to Vietnam is Bush's fault, the fact that he is a french-guy wannabe is Bush's fault, and the fact that for the past 50 years America has led the world is Bush's fault. You see where I am going with this?

Bush-Cheney '04. The Right decision.

P.S. If anyone calls me a conservative, I'll take it as a compliment. To me, it is.

[GBirkn]

Yes, heaven forbid that Bush should be held accountable for anything that happened over the last 3.5 years. I mean, he's only the President of the United States. Where does that buck stop, anyway?

[Tankerace]

wtf.... lets see, at least half of the stuff that happened was started during the Clinton administration. Most of the time the democrats pass the buck, and then want that same buck to land at the Republicans' door.

[GBirkn]

Nonsense.

But don't take my word for it, read an article by one of the editors of the Cato Institute (conservatives to a man), who wrote:

Overall spending has increased twice as fast under George W. Bush as it did under Bill Clinton. And you can't just chalk that up to the demands of the war on terror. Non-defense discretionary spending is up 24 percent over the first three years of the Bush administration. That's a worse record than any president since Lyndon Johnson. The cabinet department whose budget grew the most under Bush isn't the Pentagon-it's Education, followed by Labor. The Department of Defense is fifth. . . .

How odd that Bill Clinton, that giant, walking appetite of a man, turned out to be a model of fiscal restraint, and George W. Bush, a teetotalling model of self-discipline in his personal life, turned out to be so profligate and irresponsible in fiscal policy.

It's odd too, that it was George W. Bush, not Bill Clinton, who launched the biggest expansion of the Great Society in over 30 years. Medicare was already fiscally unsustainable, facing huge shortfalls as the baby boom generation begins to retire in 10 years. The new prescription drug benefit lauded by the president in the State of the Union will make a bad situation dramatically worse. The plan will supposedly "only" cost $400 billion over 10 years. But in its second decade, the plan could cost anywhere between $1.7 to $2 trillion, according to the Congressional Budget Office. Sen. Judd Gregg (R.-NH), who voted against the bill, called it "the largest tax increase that one generation has put on another generation in the history of the country."

http://www.cato.org/dailys/02-01-04.html

And that's just on fiscal policy. Let's not even get into the war in Iraq, which drove Daniel Drezner, another conservative, to write:

To put it crudely, my anger at Bush for the number of Mongolian cluster-f**ks this administration was discovered to have made in the planning process in the run-up to Iraq was compounded by the even greater number of cluster-f**ks the administration made in the six months after the invasion, topped off by George W. Bush's decision not to fire the clusterf**ks in the civilian DoD leadershop that insisted over the past two years that not a lot of troops were needed in the Iraqi theater of operations.

http://www.danieldrezner.com/archives/001688.html

Neither of those problems can even remotely be said to have started under Clinton.

[esteban]

I like the analogy I saw a couple days ago--with Bush, we know where the road is, but he has no guard rails. Kerry has guardrails, but nobody knows where the road is taking us.

Have you guys seen Kerry's record on congressional authorization votes? It really is inconsistent.

Op. Just Cause: Voted for taking out Noriega in Panama in 1999. (I happened to think that was not worth the cost in $$ and lives for the infractions that Noriega was guilty of. It looked a little too much like Uncle Sam trying to retain influence over a certain canal he had built in his youth.)

Desert Storm: Voted against it. (I was for that one)

Bosnia: Voted for authorization to deploy the 6th fleet plus Marines to pummel the Serbs to the bargaining table. (I was for that one)

Kosovo: Voted for it. (I was against it. Carving up sovereign countries, even ones with oppressed minorities, is not something that sets a good precedent. We have 20K NATO troops that even if we are very lucky will still be there in a decade, because Kosovo is so impoverished that even if it was given independence, it would still be at Serbia's mercy.)

Afghanistan: Voted for it, like 99.99% of other U.S. pols above the office of dogcatcher would have done. (Of course I was for that one)

Iraq: Voted for it. (I was/am in favor of that one) Then he voted against the famous $87 billion supplemental authorization. Or he voted for it, before he voted against it--or he made a mistake about how he said it--you guys figure it out.

[Tankerace]

So.... your entire thing of holding accountable for 4 years is based on fiscal spending and the war in Iraq? I support the war in Iraq, and I personally feel safer knowing that Saddam Hussein has been ousted. In the war on terror, Bush has won a fairly swift victory. Never again will another 9/11 be possible.

Fiscal spending has increased. Granted, I don't really support it, but it is one thing that I willa ccept compared to other things.

Education has gotten more attention under Bush than it has in years.

Military spending has ensured our military will be ready for anything. Had AL Gore been elected, (or Kerry now), the military would be in such a bad shape that combating a war on terror would have been more difficult than it already is.

Thanks to Bush, a nuclear missile defense system will now further protect America from terrorist attack, or attacks by other nations.

Under Bush, thanks to the actions in Afghanistan and Iraq, Libya gave up its WMD program. Something that niether George H. W. Bush and Bill Clinton could acheive. The War in Iraq may have saved us from fighting in other nations.

Now, I suppose you'd rather have John Kerry elected?

Under Kerry, all US military movements would be dictated by the [corrupt] United Nations. The UN would have a bigger say than the US Congress.

Kerry publicly supports a 50 cent tax increase on gas. I don't know how much it is where you live, but its high enough for my taste where I live. Then, later, he denounced it.

After 9/11, at a time when the US NEEDED intelligence, Kerry voted to cut the intelligence budget. That's like the 1 person who voted to not go to war after Pearl Harbor.

Under his fellow democrats, there is a movement to have the UN run the US presidential elections, NOT the United States Government.

You complain about Bush's raising of taxes (which would partially be ofset by tax breaks). Yet, you want to elect a man who has voted over 350 times in the senate to raise taxes.

You are against the war in Iraq. I respect that. However, it wasn't until April 2004 that John Kerry finally took a firm stance AGAINST the Iraq war, following his indecisiveness and his support for the war. At least Bush made a decision and stuck with it.

When asked in April of 2004 how Kerry would handle Iraq, Kerry said "I will stay the course. And then, once it becomes favorable, I will turn it all over to the UN." Not only is the UN corrupt, but if after 14 months of debating by Bush they wouldn't contribute, why would they for Kerry. In addition, France and Germany have already said they would oppose actions in Iraq, even if Kerry was elected.

John Kerry's flip flopping is so bad [although he denies it], that in Christmas of 2003, democratic nominee Howard Dean's staff gave Kerry a pair of flip-flops for Christmas. His own party recognizes it.

Despite John Kerry's repeated claims, the U.S. 9/11 Commission has released a statement that, since 9/11 the United States is safer than it has been in twenty years. John Kerry is trying to convince the American people that we are in more trouble, despite the US Congress supporting another statement.

19 out of 23 officers that served with John Kerry in Vietnam have publicly signed a document that he is unfit to be President.

Every living commanding officer Kerry had has publicly signed a document saying he is unfit to be President.

In 2003, John Kerry failed to attend 64% of the votes in the US Senate. In 2004 he failed to attend 80%. Even though he is campaigning, he is still technically a US senator and is expected to do his job.

There have been rumors about the draft being reinstated. Oddly enough, all of them originated with John Kerry. Bush, nor the Congress, expressed any interest in the draft. It is Kerry's way of scaring the 18-24 year old voters into electing him.

You complain about Bush and taxes. May I remind you that John Kerry pays roughly 12% income tax, and Bush pays 33-35%. The Average American pays 28%.

In 1991, Kerry was a die-hard advocate for trading with China. Now, Kerry criticizes Bush for trading with China. Anyone smell a flip-flop?

According to Matt Hayes at Fox News, "Kerry then went on to promise that the 8 million to 12 million illegal aliens in the U.S. would be given a “path to citizenship” in his first 100 days in office."

John Kerry is prone to touting and running with false news stories. He did it with the Rather episode (Rather-gate), and he did it with a New York Times story on October 25th. The NYT article said 380 tons of explosives suddenly disappeared from a facility guarded by US troops. However, according to NBC, the explosives had been removed during the 14 months the US was bickering with the UN, and when the facility was seized on April 10, 2003, the explosives had already been moved.

My main reason for NOT voting for Kerry: During the last debate, as he had no real domestic plan, he resorted to foreign policy and personal attacks, and even attacked Dick Cheney's lesbian daughter. The Democrats are supposed to be pro-gay, and the final debate was agreed to be about Domestic issues, NOT foreign policy issues.

In addition, it was John Edwards [democrat VP candidate] that tried to politicize Christopher Reeves death, by saying that "[Through stem cells] when John Kerry is elected, people like Mr. Reeve will walk again." Not only was that in very bad taste, Christopher Reeve himself had said that such research would help them, but they could never walk again.

Oh, and need I remind you of Kerry's wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry? Who in intervies has said people are "idiots for not agreeing with my husband", and in TV and radio interviews, called people scumbags and told them to shove it. In addition, when asked about First Lady Laura Bush, Heinz-Kerry said "I don't think Mrs Bush has ever had a real job."* While the statement was quickly recanted, the fact is it was made. Do you really want her as an emissary of the United States?

Bush isn't the perfect choice. But he is definately the better of the two, at least in my opinion.

*FYI, Mrs Bush was a teacher, librarian, and mother of two before becoming the First Lady. Are those "not real jobs"?

[Bodhi]

Is this the right place for all this?

[Tankerace]

Probably not. But I can't let an attack on Bush without support go by. now..


WHERE THE **** IS THE 1.3 PATCH!!!!!!!!! ME NEED PATCH!!!!!!!!!
[:D][:D][:D][:D]

[madmickey]

I am a pro American Canadian, I have no use for typical European leftist ideas. But I sure wish that it would have been Rudy Giuliani as President.

[fbastos]

Probably not. But I can't let an attack on Bush without support go by. now..

I would advise stop using Ketchup, as a dollar from each bottle end up in Kerry's campaign!

F.

PS: Hmm... maybe I should stop pumping gas in my car too...

[Tophat]

We are waiting for the patch and confining "this" to this thread.....so totally appropriate.

Is it too early to ask for the 1.4 patch?[:D]

[Tankerace]

ORIGINAL: fbastos

Probably not. But I can't let an attack on Bush without support go by. now..

I would advise stop using Ketchup, as a dollar from each bottle end up in Kerry's campaign!

F.

PS: Hmm... maybe I should stop pumping gas in my car too...

Funny story. A Local Steakhouse, operated by a die hard conservative like myself, actually stopped serviving Heinz Ketchup. He now uses Hunt's, saying that he in no way wants to help Kerry get elected. Not as drastic as you would think.

I agree to not go way into politics, but when you think about it, by Thursday, or for sure by Tuesday, we'll all shut up and go back to storming islands or blasting each others flattops out of the sea, so what is the harm.

[forranger]

Boy have you been brainwashed by Bush's spin doctors....... Ever been taught to use your own brain? I've never seen such a poor piece of propaganda.

ORIGINAL: Tankerace
In the war on terror, Bush has won a fairly swift victory. Never again will another 9/11 be possible.

Just imagine what will happen after US troups are withdrawn from Iraq. Don't you think a part of the troubles made there might travel elsewhere too? Do you think the US has made big friends in the Islam world with this mess mainly inflicted by having NO decent plan for the time after the military victory? Maybe there won't be planes hitting skyscrapers anymore, but can't you imagine other attack methods? In Israel you see that NOTHING can stop a guy or a woman who doesn't care for life on this planet anymore. And in Iraq life has been made miserable for a lot of folks during the last year.....

ORIGINAL: Tankerace
Military spending has ensured our military will be ready for anything.

Yeah, we see how stable the situation in Iraq is. Brilliant remark.

ORIGINAL: Tankerace
Thanks to Bush, a nuclear missile defense system will now further protect America from terrorist attack, or attacks by other nations.

Buddy, terrorists don't ever attack with ballistic missiles...... If there's a terrorist attack with a nuclear device it's gonna be a bomb placed in a car or a piece of baggage.....

ORIGINAL: Tankerace
Under his fellow democrats, there is a movement to have the UN run the US presidential elections, NOT the United States Government.

Looking back to the mess for example in Florida in the last election (still being run by a governor named Bush....) and the same mess on the horizon for this election I can understand the wish for outside assistence..... I never imagined to see third world voting standards in a nation which claims to be the mother of all democracies..... Who on earth came up with the idea of electronic voting devices leaving no paper trail for an election of this importance?????????????????

ORIGINAL: Tankerace
You are against the war in Iraq. I respect that. However, it wasn't until April 2004 that John Kerry finally took a firm stance AGAINST the Iraq war, following his indecisiveness and his support for the war. At least Bush made a decision and stuck with it.

Kerry WAS in Vietnam, putting his life on the line when others have dodged combat service, and what started to happen in Iraq turns out to have more and more parallels with what happened in Southeast Asia. Bad decisions shouldn't necessarily be followed if they clearly lead to an abyss. I'm amazed at the Lemming mentality of most Bush followers.

ORIGINAL: Tankerace
According to Matt Hayes at Fox News, .........

Quoting Fox News is a joke. There's no other news organisation with a comparable size of audience with such a terrible bias in politics. The highest ethical priority for Journalism is solid and balanced information of the public. A necessary prerequisite for a functionning democracy. Fox definatly is no source for neutral and solid informations but an ultraconservative propaganda machine......

ORIGINAL: Tankerace
My main reason for NOT voting for Kerry: During the last debate, as he had no real domestic plan, he resorted to foreign policy and personal attacks ......

Question: Does the Bush team und B himself refrain from personal attacks? Does Bush offer more in the direction of a real domestic plan?

In short: If you want to do Mr. Bush and the audience of this forum a favour then shut up about politics..... I intended to restrain myself too, but Tankerace's piece of propaganda cried out to be confronted. I'm perfectly willing to enter a constructive discussion, but somewhere else, not in a wargame forum, ok?

[Bodhi]

ORIGINAL: forranger
I'm perfectly willing to enter a constructive discussion, but somewhere else, not in a wargame forum, ok?

You finally got there. [;)]

[forranger]

ORIGINAL: Bodhi
You finally got there. [;)]

Yep. Made a mistake in another thread by spontaneously initializing an escalation like in this one. Don't know anymore who told so, but it's correct that politics in general and especially political issues dealing with this presidential election tend to become emotional, verbal stones being thrown, eyes lost in the process, and the like. Very true. Also there is a very heterogenous audience in this forum (age, education, language skills), so in-depth-discussions of most topics other than WitP tend to have undesirable results and bear no fruits anyway.

Therefore I second the motion to stick to wargame issues in this forum.

[fbastos]

Therefore I second the motion to stick to wargame issues in this forum.

Only if that includes changing your ketchup brand!

F.