Will the release of the Patch Affect the Elections?

[Point Luck]

I agree. I have been reading about the 1860 election.

I was going to suggest that same thing.

Being a civil war freak and love the pre-election era 58 - 60 espically. The parallels are interesting, including the political rhetoric

[forranger]

ORIGINAL: Point Luck
My only fear is reliving those times again. My dad was stationed at Pearl Harbour on Dec 7th my uncle in Phillipines I will never forget the look in thier faces on Sept 11, 2001

This look was in all faces in the western hemisphere, with very few exceptions. I deeply regret how things were handled since then. The west and even some arab nations could have stood united instead of being forced apart.

[IronDuke_slith]

Not ot get drawn further into this debate but..

how did the anti war movement win in 1968 ? Richard Nixon was elected then and he and the anti war people battled on for years after.

It only made him parinoid and helped ot cause water gate.

If anything the anti war movement paralized this nations for a decade. And is poised to do so again.

I thought it was less about anti-war in general, though, and more about anti-war in Iraq? My (happy to be corrected) impression has been that Kerry hasn't said war is evil, merely said the war in Iraq has turned out to be less than it was advertised as? Largely due to the kind of reports being churned out by the Iraqi survey group, and Rumsfeld's off the cuff comments about pre-war intelligence on the Saddam-Osama link.

I hadn't gotten the impression that the current anti-war feeling was of the sort seen during the 1960s and 70s.

Regards,
IronDuke

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: Tophat

Your swiss stay neutral! Its safer....look son there be 24 hrs left cut us some slack,its hard to sit by and watch an election be stolen infront of you.

If the Dems had a ham turkey potpie running against bush it'd be elected president.

Release the patch........hurry matrix!

They seem to have taken your advice. They've put up a Ham and a Turkey!

[2ndACR]

By request here it is again.

http://prochelo.com/stl-web/bulletin/bb/index.php

That is the proper place for these discussions. If you are brave enough to enter the lions den.

[pasternakski]

It is very kind of you to elevate this miasma into a "discussion." I doubt that even Vinnie and the Doog would tolerate it.

[Onime No Kyo]

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

It is very kind of you to elevate this miasma into a "discussion." I doubt that even Vinnie and the Doog would tolerate it.

Had to look up miasma. Very good word use. I salute you. [&o]

[2ndACR]

I am trying to be diplomatic, it ain't easy.

[rhondabrwn]

ORIGINAL: William Amos
If anything the anti war movement paralized this nations for a decade. And is poised to do so again.

It wasn't the anti-war movement that paralyzed this nation for a decade, it was the costs of a war that we never should have gotten involved in that discouraged and depressed America.

Bloody wars throughout history have a tendency to do that... witness the aftermath of the carnage of World War I. It wasn't some kind of "theoretical peace movement" that allowed Hitler's rise. It was the long lasting public revulsion about war caused by the millions of casualties. One could blame "the anti-war movement" but such movements only have power when they tap into underlying public sentiments and concerns.

If it hadn't been for the 1960's peace movement, we could have lost 180,000 men in Vietnam, killed more millions of Vietnamese, and still eventually lost. Peace movements serve a purpose... they insure that the government has a conscience and that unpleasant truths can't be suppressed. If you want to live in a free country, you need those protesters and you need public debate. Trying to suppress both with charges of "unpatriotic!... traitorous! leads only to authoritarianism.

[Point Luck]

Donald Rumsfeld eventually comes to a similar conclusion

Living the same times and seeing the same things as you I agree with one very very important point

"You can't impose a government on a people or nation at the point of a gun. You can't put enough troops into a country to suppress opposition"

But I think there's a new paradigm in play, this time there are people out there that really want to kill us just becuse we are us. and this time it was here.

Sometimes you do have to at least give the people a chance to choose a goverment.

I think this time might be right time. Could be wrong too

[Reiryc]

You can't impose a government on a people or nation at the point of a gun. You can't put enough troops into a country to suppress opposition.

Then what happened in germany and japan after ww2?

[2ndACR]

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

ORIGINAL: William Amos
If anything the anti war movement paralized this nations for a decade. And is poised to do so again.

It wasn't the anti-war movement that paralyzed this nation for a decade, it was the costs of a war that we never should have gotten involved in that discouraged and depressed America.

Bloody wars throughout history have a tendency to do that... witness the aftermath of the carnage of World War I. It wasn't some kind of "theoretical peace movement" that allowed Hitler's rise. It was the long lasting public revulsion about war caused by the millions of casualties. One could blame "the anti-war movement" but such movements only have power when they tap into underlying public sentiments and concerns.

If it hadn't been for the 1960's peace movement, we could have lost 180,000 men in Vietnam, killed more millions of Vietnamese, and still eventually lost. Peace movements serve a purpose... they insure that the government has a conscience and that unpleasant truths can't be suppressed. If you want to live in a free country, you need those protesters and you need public debate. Trying to suppress both with charges of "unpatriotic!... traitorous! leads only to authoritarianism.

Wrong, it was the fighting a war to not win it, but to not lose it either. You fight to win, otherwise just surrender. Peace movements are okay, only if they know who the bad guys are. I do not see any peace niks traveling to the ME and protesting about the terrorists there. They only protest the US.

[2ndACR]

ORIGINAL: Reiryc

You can't impose a government on a people or nation at the point of a gun. You can't put enough troops into a country to suppress opposition.

Then what happened in germany and japan after ww2?

They got beat down until they begged for mercy. That is what needs to happen again. You can not fight a politically correct war.

[Paul Vebber]

Man you guys sneak this stuff in under teh radar screen...

There is a dire need more liberals over at the Steakhouse.

They keep yelling people refuse to agree with them and go home