WiF strategy quiz for Japan

[Droop21]

Two small corrections: [;)]
- Complete conquest of the Netherlands (after conquest of Dutch Guyana and the NEI) will not stop the chit draw [:D]
- Conquering Persia will not give USSR another alternative home country in case of conquest: only a aligned countries count to avoid conquest [:(]

[vonpaul]

quite frankly if Russia is looking for a new homecountry its time to give up!

[meyerg]

Answer: So, if Russia is not set up to get Persia, I think Japan should get it.

Second Question (Russia strategy quiz). Do we all think Russia should jump Persia immediately? Japan can get it on the third impulse of the game if they want it.

[Mziln]

ORIGINAL: meyerg

Answer: So, if Russia is not set up to get Persia, I think Japan should get it.

Second Question (Russia strategy quiz). Do we all think Russia should jump Persia immediately? Japan can get it on the third impulse of the game if they want it.

[:)] Russia strategy quiz: YUP, Russia should jump Persia then on to Iraq (2 more oil). [:)]

[coregames]

ORIGINAL: meyerg

Answer: So, if Russia is not set up to get Persia, I think Japan should get it.

Second Question (Russia strategy quiz). Do we all think Russia should jump Persia immediately? Japan can get it on the third impulse of the game if they want it.

The problem with pouncing on Persia early is that it is giving oil to the CW, as is Iraq. I believe Russia should think carefully before this move, since the forces commited there may preclude a Finnish or Rumanian demand, and may lead to a weak Siberian defence. If Japan aligns Persia instead of Germany when Russia attacks, they can even DoW Russia on turn one and rebase troops to a Persian port before conquest.

[Mziln]

ORIGINAL: coregames
The problem with pouncing on Persia early is that it is giving oil to the CW, as is Iraq. I believe Russia should think carefully before this move, since the forces commited there may preclude a Finnish or Rumanian demand, and may lead to a weak Siberian defence. If Japan aligns Persia instead of Germany when Russia attacks, they can even DoW Russia on turn one and rebase troops to a Persian port before conquest.

A weaker Siberian defence? Yes this is true if there is a Sino-Soviet ground war.

Finland and Rumania are minor neutrals and can't threaten the Soviets.

5.1 Trade agreements

A neutral Persia must supply the Commonwealth with 1 of its oil resources each turn.

A neutral Iraq must supply France with 1 of its oil resources each turn (to bad for France). [8|]

[coregames]

Because Russia can't force peace unless Japan takes Vladivostok, the Japanese can DoW, surround Vlad (but wait to actually take it), and pour every spare troop into Persia, taking the oil Russia was aiming at, or at the very least, making Russia very weak against a '41 Barbarossa. The extra front Russia must defend, plus possible losses in Siberia and Persia, could prove problematic if the Axis plays right. Japan is always itching for something to do with their forces early in the war, and Russia is more attractive than China, since the Germans are helping squeeze from the other side; conquest is much more likely in that scenario.

As to the Finnish Borderlands and/or claim on Bessarabia, that extra space helps the Germans early in Barbarossa. Resolving the Balkans especially is helpful for rolling on Greece, and clearing up the political situation. When I first started playing WiF, as Russia I did go after Persia and Iraq. Nowadays, I prefer claiming Bessarabia early (1st Impulse 1940), to keep the Germans uncomfortable in the Balkans. A 1940 Persia and Iraq will still succeed if necessary (Germans take Suez for instance).

It is true though that the Iraqi oil is France's, and Russia is well served by taking it at the right time, if the Axis doesn't oppose Russia's Persian maneuvers. Though I admit I haven't seen a Japanese reinforcement of Persia on turn one, I've looked at it and the next time Russia tries that, I will put it to the test.

Has anyone seen Japan reinforce Persia like that (during an early Russian invasion)? I am very curious about the implications.

[coregames]

ORIGINAL: Mziln

Finland and Rumania are minor neutrals and can't threaten the Soviets.

If the Germans do the currently popular move - conquer Yugoslavia immediately after Poland before returning to crush France - the Balkans situation is resolved, as all three balkan axis minors enter the war on subsequent impulses. Suddenly, those pesky minors add to the German garrison. From what I hear on the Yahoo boards, this is very effective. It also allows Italy to line up on Greece much better than they did historically (Bulgaria as a second front). To prevent this, an early claim of Bessarabia, with the forces necessary to push the Rumanians back if they deny the claim, is powerful strategically. Of course, something would have to give. Persia has its compensation, but I prefer Bessarabia.

I still don't quite understand why the Russians went for Finland historically. It seems the weakest of the three options.

[meyerg]

Another question for Russia. How much force to set up on the Pacific map? I used to like to threaten Japan early to tie down some forces early. Getting caught with too much on the Pacific map in Summer 40 if Japan attacks can be disastrous.
greg

[Mziln]

[&:] Your Arguments are [&:]

(1) 3 units are too much to remove from Siberia because of the possability of war with Japan.

(A)

ORIGINAL: coregames
The Japanese can DoW, surround Vlad (but wait to actually take it)

(2)

ORIGINAL: coregames
Persia has its compensation, but I prefer Bessarabia

(A) You have to use 3 Siberian units to capture Persia in one turn. This leaves the rest of the Soviet army to take the Bessarabia option.

(3) The Soviets will become stronger and Japan will some how become weaker by capturing the Persian and Iraq oil fields.

(A) Aside from creating a unprotectable convoy route to Persia and plunging Japan into a direct confrotation with the Allies. Commonwealth players, when war starts with Japan do you them on two sides of India? You may as well start the war while Japan is at its weakest.

(4) Japan needs somthing to do early in the war outside of the Paciific theater.

(A) So do the Soviets and you can win in Persia. Finland - the supply situation is a disaster. Bessarabia - Although this is the better of the two oprions it can be stopped by weak German infantry reinforcements.

[coregames]

ORIGINAL: Mziln

Bessarabia - Although this is the better of the two oprions it can be stopped by weak German infantry reinforcements

If Russia demands Bessarabia and the Germans deny the claim, Russia DoW's Rumania and the Germans can't help them much (they can't counterattack). If Russia is really tough they can break out of Bessarabia and keep the war going, even conquering Rumania. That really screws the Germans.

If Germany allows the claim, Bulgaria won't align unless the Germans are at war with Russia or Yugoslavia, and depending on the other demands on Rumania by Hungary and Bulgaria, might never align.

If none of the Persian or Iraqi oil was in use, I would agree, but since some of it is getting to the Allies already, I still feel Bessarabia is the way to go.

[Droop21]

As USSR:
I always go for Bessarabia first (before Persia or Finland) in 1939. Unless you are dramaticaly short of a US entry chits [:-], IMHO Bessarabia is a no brainer (with the usual options). With a minimum of planning (e.g. a div with the Black Sea fleet); you can ensure that you will have troops in Rumania proper and therefor forbid a lapse of war. German "peacekeepers" are very limited (see 9.9 Multiple States of War):
- they can't attack anyone (only defend themselves if attacked)
- they can't block bombings targeting only non German troops/installations (including oil)
They can prevent a Rumanian conquest (at the price of less pressure on France), but they can't stop you from torching the oil wells with your heavy strat bombers [:D].

Persia depends on the US entry chit situation and wether Japan is geared against me or not. If they are ready to pounce me, I pass on Persia (at least until the peace settlement) overwise I tend to go for it. I'm not convinced by the argument that Japanese presenc in Persia is at risk until 1942. An early CW war declaration on Japan is a very risky gambit in my view which requires very strong reasons to commit:
- huge USE hit -26
- Japan having a free reign to attack CW for 2 years (no way the CW navy can hold its footing against it)

Finland is a very tough nut to crack for the USSR: supply is very tough indeed, need to use airborne and maratime invasions to do real progress, units are strong and minor German reinforcements (2 corps in Helsinki) will spoil the party (no critical resources to strat bomb). IMHO all depends on the German progress in France: if they are bugged down, you can try a late M/J 1940 challenge with your fleet in the Baltic and a ready para corps. If they are making good progress I would recommend to stay out: being on the wrong end of an early Barbarossa while mired in Finland is a good way to be running for the Urals. [X(]

[Mziln]

I will repost this. Too many variables just now.

Ie: The Soviets, Rumania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Yugosalvia, and Greece.

Persia and the chit situation - I start with 3 against Germany.

[coregames]

They can prevent a Rumanian conquest (at the price of less pressure on France

but, since all of the Rumanian hexes remain under Rumanian control, Russia can attack Germans even in Bucharest:

Note that even though major powers may control minor countries (see 9.8 & 13.7.1), it is the minors themselves that control hexes in that minor.

A unit may not enter or attack a hex (or units therein) controlled by a major power on the other side that it isn't at war with. However it can attack a hex controlled by an enemy major power or minor country even if the hex contains units it is not at war with.

Since Germans units in Rumania can't counterattack, Russia has the best of it there. No doubt the Germans could send enough land and air support to save Rumania, but the Russians can pat themselves on the back for having saved France, which of course means a crushing defeat for the Axis.