ONLY!!! OOB Comments/Suggestions for Patch 1.4

[Andy Mac]

36th UK Division I am fairly sure it served in Burma why is it not shown ?

Alos I think Indian Army replacements are to low and British are to high given contraints on British replacements)

I would like to see it at 55 or 60 for Indian as I cannot believe Australians get 80 given population and mid to late war industry it strikes me as weird that Indian replacements are so low. (Alternatively change Orbat of Indian Army Divisons to have some British and Commonwealth (Ghurka) squads.

Andy

[jcjordan]

Didn't know it was that small of a ML thought it might be a larger ML like one of the Dutch, if that's the case no problem then.

[Pascal_slith]

Well, as I've been harping over and over again, there are too many supply points lying around at base hexes that were no more than quaint little spots on Dec. 7th 1941. It has been mentioned by Matrix that because of AI issues, it is not possible to convert these bases to simple beach hexes (which is what most of them should be). But why weren't the supply point levels at these bases reduced at least to very low numbers?

Here's a preliminary list of the only island bases that should exist on Dec. 7th 1941. Preliminary because it may have a few errors, is unfinished concerning the Japanese, and it wasn't exhaustive concerning 'continental' bases in Asia and in North America. There are also corrections for fuel supply levels (these are from my readings on the subject so far like 'Oil and War' and 'Pacific War Revisited'). I also indicate the bases that should simply be beach hexes. It also corrects my earlier post about the 7th Marine Defense Batt. and indicates what units were actually present for the Allies in most of these islands where different from the current WitP setup.


Allies

Only the following militarily significant facilities existed on Dec. 7, 1941

Hawaiian Islands Group

Oahu (Pearl Harbor, etc.)
Only significant modification is the increase in the fuel points available on Dec. 7, 1941, to 610’000 (this represents the 4.5 million barrels available at the tank farm according to testimony at the Pearl Harbor attack hearings).


Central and South Pacific

Midway Islands

Wake

Guam

Johnston Island

Palmyra Island

Canton Island

American Samoa
Pago-Pago: A small refueling station and communications center. 7th Marine Defense Battalion (+) and 1st Samoan Marine Reserve Battalion present at start of war.
Upolu had a New Zealand company-sized defense force while Wallis was empty. Move 116th USN Base Force to SF.

Tongatabu
New Zealand base at beginning of war. One battalion of Tonga troops (442) with NZ cadre (Tongan Defense Force). No American units present. No airfield.

Fiji
New Zealand garrison. Move VMR-252 to SD.


Noumea
Australian garrison. Move SoPac to PH. Move 117th USN Base Force to Seattle. Move AK Surigao, AK Wawa and AP Royal T. Frank to SF.


Efate
A few Australian troops and a seaplane base (small seaplanes, not patrol-type). Create 4 Walrus 1/22 RAAF flight.


Bases in scenarios starting in Dec. 1941 that are reduced to no facilities
(port 0, airfield 0, no fuel, no supplies)
Christmas Is.
Makin Atoll
Tarawa Atoll
Apamama
Nauru Is. (Isn’t this a phosphate source? Resource production?)
Baker Is.
Nanomea Atoll
Nukufetau Is.
Funafuti Is.
Wallis Is.
Espiritu Santo
Koumac (New Caledonia)
La Foa (New Caledonia)
Norfolk Is.

Hex 77,89 should be undeveloped base Ocean Is.


New Guinea-Bismarck-Solomons


Hollandia

Lae

Salamaua

Port Moresby

Tulagi



Hex 53,89 should be an undeveloped base area (potential airfield 1). This was the location of the …. gold mines.



Bases in scenarios starting in Dec. 1941 that are reduced to simple port facilities
(port 1, airfield 0, no fuel, no supplies)

New Guinea
Sorong
Babo
Aitape
Madang
Wewak
Finschafen
Salamaua
Buna
Gili-Gili


Bismarck Archip.
Kavieng
Gasmata


Solomons
Tulagi
Shortlands





Bases in scenarios starting in Dec. 1941 that are reduced to no facilities
(port 0, airfield 0, no fuel, no supplies)

New Guinea
Sansopor
Manokwari
Noemfoor
Biak
Sarmi
Dagua
Hansa
Siador
Goodenough Is.
Kiriwina Is.
Woodlark Is.
Thursday Is.
Merauke


Bismarck Archip.
Admiralty Is.
Emirau Is.
Sag Sag
Talasea
Arawe


Solomons
Green Is.
Buka
Torokina
Buin
Vella Lavella
Munda
Russell Is.
Tassafaronga
Lunga




Dutch East Indies-British Borneo

Amboina

Kendari

Menado

Macassar

Kuching

Singawang

Pontianak

Brunei

Balikpapan

Tarakan

Samarinda

Lautem

Dili

Koepang

Lombok

Bali

Pamakasan

Malang

Soerbaja
Reduce available fuel drastically to 40000.

Madioen

Djokjakarta

Tjilitjap

Bandoeng

Batavia
Reduce available fuel to 40000.

Toelekbetoeng

Binkep

Sinkolen Is.

Padang

Palembang

Banka

Medang

Kuala




Bases in scenarios starting in Dec. 1941 that are reduced to simple port facilities
(port 1, airfield 0, no fuel, no supplies)
Aru
Morotai
Tomini
Miri
Jesselton
Sandakan
Waingapu
Maumere
Raba
Kragan
Merak
Toboali
Muntok
Jambi
Sabang






Bases in scenarios starting in Dec. 1941 that are reduced to no facilities
(port 0, airfield 0, no fuel, no supplies)
Namlea
Kai
Tenimbar
Bulla
Pomala
Pinrang
Makale





Philippines

Manila

Bataan

Clark Field

San Marcelino

Lingayan

Lamon Bay

Vigan

Laoag

Aparri

Tuguegarao

Naga

Legaspi

Iloilo

Cebu

Jolo

Cagayan

Davao

Cotabato

Zamboanga?




Bases in scenarios starting in Dec. 1941 that are reduced to simple port facilities
(port 1, airfield 0, no fuel, no supplies)

San Jose
Roxas
Ormoc
Tacloban
Guiuan
Tawi Tawi
Butuan
Dadjangas



Bases in scenarios starting in Dec. 1941 that are reduced to no facilities
(port 0, airfield 0, no fuel, no supplies)



Alaska

Juneau

Sitka Is.

Anchorage
Move NoPac to Seattle.

Kodiak Is.

Dutch Harbor

Nome



Bases in scenarios starting in Dec. 1941 that are reduced to simple port facilities
(port 1, airfield 0, no fuel, no supplies)



Bases in scenarios starting in Dec. 1941 that are reduced to no facilities
(port 0, airfield 0, no fuel, no supplies)

Cold Bay
Umnak Is.
Atka Is.
Adak Is.
Ogliuga Is.
Amchitka Is.
Kiska Is.
Attu Is.





Japanese

Central and South Pacific

Marcus Is.
Small airbase force should be available at start?

Bonin

Pagan

Saipan

Tinian
Small airbase force should be available at start?

Palau

Yap

Ulithi
Small naval base force should be available at start?

Wolaei


Truk

Eniwetok
Small airbase force should be available at start?

Ponape

Kwajalein


Wotje


Malolelap
Small airbase force should be available at start?




Bases in scenarios starting in Dec. 1941 that are reduced to simple port facilities
(port 1, airfield 0, no fuel, no supplies)

Tori Shima
Iwo Jima
Majuro




Bases in scenarios starting in Dec. 1941 that are reduced to no facilities
(port 0, airfield 0, no fuel, no supplies)

Satawal
Bikini
Rongelap
Kusaie
Namorik
Ebon
Mili

[Andrew Brown]

Hi Pascal,

Very interesting information!

However aren't some of your proposed reductions a bit extreme? For example, is it really the case that established towns such as Anchorage and Juneau in Alaska have no functional ports or airfields?

[strawbuk]

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

For example, is it really the case that established towns such as Anchorage and Juneau in Alaska have no functional ports or airfields?

Define functional - I think Pascal means able to handle a decent naval task force arriving in a hurry or all the gubbins needed to run significant air ops; sure Anchorage had a 'port' but so does tey Cornish fishing village I went on holiday to.

[asdicus]

Re oob changes for 1.40 I would like to mention again my request for the removal of radar from Oi and Kitakami in 1941. I have mentioned my supporting evidence in a longer post under the old oob thread. To summarise those posts the Type 13 naval airsearch radar was only developed in 1943 and operational use began in early 1944. This radar (also called Type 3 mark 1 model 3) did not exist in 1941 at all. See books by Lacroix/Wells and Nakagawa for more information on japanese radar development and specification.

[Bradley7735]

Pry,

See the thread below called "Ops report showing reinforcements"

I didn't want to put it in here, because it isn't technically an OOB error. But I'd like you to look at it and if you like the idea, try to convince Matrix to allow you to implement it.

Thanks, bc

[m10bob]

BLIMPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
O.K.,I know I asked for this before,and was told "No",(as it was not known how to move them around)..O.K.,how about assigning bases for the blimps,and giving them a static ZOC(much like the coastal defense units have).
The blimps would be player assignable,and given a range out to maybe 2 or 3 hexes with a "possibility" of enemy detection of so-much,maybe based on the size of the target?..
I believe this has merit as the U.S. had HUNDREDS of the blimps,divided into known squadrons,and they were used effectively for sub detection and convoy support,and maritime recon..
(Besides,I think with the GREAT icon art,a "blimp" unit would be a HOOT!)
BTW,if an enemy fighter unit was in that ZOC,it would of course also have a possibility of destroying said percentage of the blimp squadron..
The blimp units might even be limited to Pearl(after the initial attack),and the U.S. west coast,to prevent any "mis-use"?
Come on guys,have an open mind.....after all,they are historically correct and were WAY more prolific mileage and number wise than some of the other units in this game)..
http://www.americanblimp.com/blimps.htm
http://moffetthistoric.arc.nasa.gov/his ... tory9.html
and this site gives the squadron numbers and their base locations!:
http://www.bluejacket.com/usn_avi_ww2_blimps.html

[m10bob]

I just went to this website and when I punched U.S.M.C. units on Dec 7th,it gave a good list of where even sub-units were stationed,(including China,Johnston Island,Canton Is.,etc..
http://www.bluejacket.com/[:)]

[jcjordan]

I would like to see filterable/switch combat animations where I could set the game to show only sub/naval/air-air/air-sea combat animations instead of on/off like it is now.
Also something for Kid's wishlist - display leaders with major stats sortable by what they are commanding, rank, available, land, air, naval. IE
R L I C Type
John Doe CAPT xx xx Arizona Naval
J Schmoe MAJ xx xx Available Land

[Admiral DadMan]

Soryu class Device 195 Ordinance was fixed for inital class, but not for upgrade classes 605 - 608

[akdreemer]

The list below are the BB/CV/CVL/CA/CL built by the US during WWII that were:
a) Commissioned before the 1946 end of game
b) Could have reasonably been assigned to the Pacific
I find it extremely annoying that the game can go past Aug 45, but US ship reinforcements come to a screeching halt. Not very realistic, historically or otherwise.

Notes on the list below:
a) The names for several of the Essex Class CV's commissioned late are my best WAG. Given how the renaming of vessels after ones lost in battle mucked up the naming. I have tried to use the name given to the ship when it was laid down.
b) Cruisers were more difficult. I could not find the original planned name with sources I have at ahnd in Anchorage, AK.
c) For aircraft carriers I gave a 4 month lead time for post commissioning stuff like working up the air groups and transit time to the West Coast, since all of these ships were constructed at East Coast ports.
d) Some ships were recorded as showing up at Pearl Harbor instead of San Diego, but they probably wet through San Diego first. As such, some of the arrival dates are extrapolations (aka WAG).

Pennant Name Arrival Port
CV-2 Lexington 12/7/41 TF12
CV-3 Saratoga 12/7/41 PSNY
CV-6 Enterprise 12/7/41 TF8
CA-24 Pensacola 12/7/41 Convoy
CA-25 Salt Lake City 12/7/41 TF8
CA-26 Northampton 12/7/41 TF8
CA-27 Chester 12/7/41 TF8
CA-28 Louisville 12/7/41 TF
CA-29 Chicago 12/7/41 TF12
CA-30 Houston 12/7/41 Panay
CA-32 New Orleans 12/7/41 PH
CA-33 Portland 12/7/41 TF
CA-34 Astoria 12/7/41 SD
CA-35 Indianapolis 12/7/41 TF12
CA-36 Minneapolis 12/7/41 Patrol
CA-38 San Francisco 12/7/41 PH
CL-7 Raleigh 12/7/41 PH
CL-8 Detroit 12/7/41 PH
CL-10 Concord 12/7/41 SD
CL-12 Marblehead 12/7/41 MH
CL-46 Phoenix 12/7/41 PH
CL-47 Boise 12/7/41 Cebu
CL-48 Honolulu 12/7/41 PH
CL-49 St. Louis 12/7/41 PH
CL-50 Helena 12/7/41 PH
CL-9 Richmond 1/1/42 SD
CL-11 Trenton 1/1/42 SD
CV-5 Yorktown 3/1/42 SD
CL-43 Nashville 3/20/42 SD
CA-44 Vincennes 4/2/42 SD
CV-7 Hornet 4/15/42 SD
CL-51 Atlanta 5/1/42 SD
CL-53 San Diego 5/22/42 SD
CA-39 Quincy 6/19/42 SD
CL-54 San Juan 6/30/42 SD
CV-8 Wasp 7/1/42 SD
CL-52 Juneau 8/22/42 SD
CL-56 Columbia 11/21/42 SD
CL-57 Montpelier 11/30/42 SD
CA-45 Wichita 12/12/42 SD
CL-55 Cleveland 1/1/43 SD
CL-58 Denver 1/29/43 SD
CL-60 Santa Fe 3/15/43 SD
CA-68 Baltimore 4/15/43 SD
CV-9 Essex 6/2/43 SD
CL-63 Mobile 7/1/43 SD
CV-10 Bon Homme Richard 7/7/43 SD
CL-95 Oakland 7/16/43 SD
CVL-22 Independence 7/24/43 SD
CV-17 Bunker Hill 7/26/43 SD
CVL-23 Princeton 7/28/43 SD
CVL-24 Bellau Wood 8/9/43 SD
CL-80 Biloxi 8/15/43 SD
CL-62 Birmingham 8/25/43 SD
CV-16 Cabot 9/5/43 SD
CVL-25 Cowpens 9/13/43 SD
CVL-26 Monterey 10/20/43 SD
CVL-28 Cabot 11/8/43 SD
CA-69 Boston 12/10/43 SD
CVL-27 Langley 12/25/43 SD
CL-96 Reno 12/28/43 SD
CV-11 Intrepid 1/5/44 SF
CA-70 Canberra 1/25/44 SD
CA-71 Quincy II 1/26/44 SD
CV-18 Oriskany 2/24/44 SD
CV-12 Kearsarge 2/26/44 SD
CVL-29 Bataan 3/17/44 SD
CVL-30 San Jacinto 4/25/44 SD
CL-64 Vincennes 5/1/44 SD
CL-89 Miami 5/1/44 SD
CL-81 Houston II 5/15/44 SD
CV-13 Franklin 6/1/44 SD
CV-19 Hancock 8/10/44 SD
CL-97 Flint 9/15/44 SD
CV-14 Ticonderoga 9/19/44 SD
CL-65 Pasadena 10/1/44 SD
CL-103 Wilkes Barre 11/10/44 SD
CL-90 Astoria II 11/27/44 SD
CL-104 Atlanta 12/1/44 SD
CV-20 Benington 1/1/45 SD
CA-37 Tuscaloosa 1/10/45 SD
CL-86 Vicksburg 1/12/45 SD
CV-15 Randolf 1/20/45 SD
CA-72 Pittsburgh 2/1/45 SD
CL-98 Tucson 2/3/45 SD
CV-38 Shangri-La 2/7/45 SD
CL-66 Springfield 2/11/45 SD
CL-67 Topeka 3/25/45 SD
CL-87 Duluth 4/15/45 SD
CA-136 Chaicago II 4/20/45 SD
CL-91 Oklahoma City 4/26/45 SD
CL-101 Amsterdam 5/15/45 SD
CL-105 Dayton 5/15/45 SD
CV-31 Bon Homme Richard 5/17/45 SD
CA-73 St. Paul 5/30/45 SD
CA-74 Columbus 6/8/45 SD
CL-82 Providence 7/31/45 SD
CV-36 Antietam 8/24/45 SD
CV-21 Boxer 9/1/45 SD
CL-102 Portsmouth 9/12/45 SD
CL-92 Little Rock 9/15/45 SD
CV-39 Constellation 10/1/45 SD
CA-131 Fall River 10/12/45 SD
CL-40 Brooklyn 10/12/45 SD
CA-135 Los Angeles 11/3/45 SD
CA-31 Augusta 11/10/45 SD
CL-41 Philadelphia 11/12/45 SD
CA-75 Helena 11/15/45 SD
CA-132 Macon 11/30/45 SD
CA-130 Bremerton 12/15/45 SD
CL-42 Savannah 1/1/46 SD
CV-37 Valley Forge 2/1/46 SD
CL-119 Juneau II 2/15/46 SD

Other things I noticed:

All ships transiting from the Atlantic to Pacific made either Sand Diego or Peral Harbor their destination, not San Francisco. The only instance I can find that an East Coast warship ship went straight to San Farancisco was the intrepid after hitting a rock.

Sand Diego was the Primary West Coast training base. San Francisco, however, served as athe primary port of embarkation for bean, bullets, and black oil. The other major West Coast ports acted in a subsidiary role.

West Coast built ships should show up in the port where it was built. This applies to mostly to merchants, CVE's, DD's, and DE's. As a Example, in 1942/43 the following DD's were commissioned at Seattle (From Friedman's U.S. Destroyes book):
Seattle/Tacoma (Todd)
Benson Class:
DD493 - Carmick-12/28/42
DD494 - Doyle-01/27/43
DD495 - Endicott-02/25/43
DD496 - McCook-03/15/43
DD497 - Frankford-03/31/43
DD624 - Baldwin-04/30/43
DD625 - Harding-05/25/43
DD626 - Satterlee-07/01/43
DD627 - Thompson-07/10/43
DD628 - Welles-08/16/43
Fletcher Class:
DD554 - Franks-07/10/43
DD555 - Haggard-07/31/43
DD556 - Hailey-09/30/43
DD557 - Johnston-10/27/43
DD558 - Laws-11/28/43
DD559 - Longshaw-12/04/43
DD560 - Morrison-12/18/43

Primary Sources:
Friedman, Norman
U.S. Aircraft Carriers: An Illustrated Design History
U.S. Battleships: An Illustrated Design History
U.S. Cruisers: An Illustrated Design History
U.S. Destroyers: An Illustrated Design History

Terzibaschitsch, Stefan
Cruisers of the US Navy 1922-1962

Faltum, Andrew
The Essex Class Carriers

Pavlowski, Gareth L.
Flattops and Fletchings: A History of American Aircraft Carriers

More to come....

Richard L. Martin
Professional Archaeologist and WWII Pacific War nut...

[Tanaka]

More IJN OOB Notes:

tm.asp?m=688919

[RevRick]

Pry...I have a question about SC 12 & SC 14...
SC 14 - beginning 04 AUG 42 has No. 12 RAAF, No. 23 RAAF, No. 24 RAAF, and No. 25 RAAF all flying Wirraways. In the SC 12, beginning 28 JUN 43, all four are flying Vengeance DBs. Not sure, but in 1.21, all four were flying Boomerang IIs.

Still have problems with UMC F4F-4 which start the game on board and upgrade to F6Fs vice F4Us in both Scenarios. This could be because SC 14 UMC squadrons start, by and large, with F4F-3s, which upgrade to F4F-4s, and there is no way around the automatic upgrade of F4F-4s to F6Fs.

Also, in SC. 14, Midway starts the game with a Level 3 Port, yet in SC 12, 10 months later, the port is Level 2.

[Moquia]

I think the allies should get the option to use the AZON bomb. We need some precision bombing [8D]

[Admiral DadMan]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

The A6M3a cannot operate from a carrier.
This aircraft is in slot 8 of the database (using scenario#16). Only aircraft in slot 1-7 and 15-23 can operate from carriers, as per editor.

The upgrade path from A6M2 (slot3) to A6M3a (slot8) to A6M5 (slot5) takes the aircraft from carrier capable to not back to can.

IIRC slot 8 was blank in v1.2 and this aircraft was added in v1.3. It probably needs be moved to slot range 15-23 if can operate from carriers.

Michael

What is going to be done about the A6M3a issue? It only exists for those who started using a campaign with it in the db, but it will be an issue.

[Tanaka]

None of the Rufe Groups in Scen 15 Database have a Maximum Aircraft Number Assigned. I assume it should be 9. They are currently set at 0.

[michaelm75au]

I wonder if the available slots for Japanese carrrier aircraft can be increased to cover the gap.

Michael

[michaelm75au]

In most of scenarios WITHOUT poduction, the build rate of the Japanese devices seem to set to zero.
Eg in #004, the build rate for all the "IJA Infantry" and other squads is zero.

Is by design or just in error?

Michael

[pry]

Data Collected

Rich and I are starting back to work on the data base this weekend, I will look at the A6M3a issue first and try to get you all an answer as quick as I can.