Allied Oil

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: von Murrin


Not really. Everything you do in this game is a trade-off. I ship oil as well when my tankers aren't shipping fuel all over the damn ocean.

I just set up a CS from san fran to Suva with 30 tankers. 540000 fuel points per trip. its almost obscene [:'(] (i'd have done it CS to Sydney but unfort the auto pathing still takes the convoy into attack range of the Outer Defense Perimeter

[von Murrin]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

I'd consider it gamey only if the tactic results in Oz producing all or even most of the supplies needed by the Allies to conduct offensive ops from there. The whole reason for the Oz-USN "lifeline" and the Japanese concern over it was the ability (or lack thereof) of transforming Oz into a platform from which the US could launch a counteroffensive.

Well, considering you can burn through a 700k supply shipment for the whole of Oz in something like 2-5 months by 8/42 (depending upon what you bring over and how intensively you use it and factoring both the Brisbane/Sydney/Melbourne/Perth/Broome/Darwin and the Brisbane/Townsville/Cooktown/Moresby sub-runs), keeping Oz HI running full tilt just allows for coasting until the next big convoy.

[von Murrin]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

ORIGINAL: von Murrin


Not really. Everything you do in this game is a trade-off. I ship oil as well when my tankers aren't shipping fuel all over the damn ocean.

I just set up a CS from san fran to Suva with 30 tankers. 540000 fuel points per trip. its almost obscene [:'(] (i'd have done it CS to Sydney but unfort the auto pathing still takes the convoy into attack range of the Outer Defense Perimeter

That's kind of what I do, too. San Fran/Pearl/Suva/Wellington/Brisbane all on slightly diminishing returns, with sub-runs to Noumea and Canton.

[von Murrin]

Oh, good Lord! We even got a Finding Nemo reference.[:D]

[Nikademus]

true. My understanding of Oz's industrial representation was that it would, assuming adequate numbers of resource and oil, be able to produce enough supply to keep it's own forces in the black but additional ops, units etc would require support from the US.

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: von Murrin

Oh, good Lord! We even got a Finding Nemo reference.[:D]

MINE?

[von Murrin]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

ORIGINAL: von Murrin

Oh, good Lord! We even got a Finding Nemo reference.[:D]

MINE?

That's the best part of the film.[:D]

[Nikademus]

maybe we should replace the explosion soundbit when a ship strikes a mine with that soundbit from Nemo.

'PG Toshi Maru strikes Type 1 mine'
(MINE! MINE! MINE! MINE! MINE!)

[Feinder]

true. My understanding of Oz's industrial representation was that it would, assuming adequate numbers of resource and oil, be able to produce enough supply to keep it's own forces in the black but additional ops, units etc would require support from the US.

Oz has PLENTY of resources. Even without oil, those resources produce 1 supply (per resource) per turn. Supply isn't really an issue in Oz (or shouldn't ever be).

What the oil does :
1. Produce additional Heavy Industry points when you actually dump oil on the bases w/ Heavy Industry.
2. Proudce 1 fuel and 1 supply when the Heavy Industry runs.
3. Speeds up the process at your Aircraft Prodcution facililties (because otherwise it has to wait on the trickle of oil from Brisbane).

However :
1. You're already producing gobs of HI points from the US. Sure more is better. But if you never touch the HI anywhere, you're going to be drowning Japan (production wise) by 1943 anyways. Fueling the HI in Oz, just means you're drowing Japan sooner.
2. Extra fuel and supply. Remember you've already got lots of supply just beacuse the Resource hexes produce supply (even if you never oil the HI). You're going to have plenty of supply by March, trust me. Extra fuel is always nice. But let's face it, it's the US CVs that are sucking up all the fuel. The CAs of the RAN and RNZN don't need -that- much fuel. I say, make the US bring it's own fuel. It's not any harder for the US to bring Fuel to Oz, as it is to ship oil to Oz. And if you just bring the Fuel (which is what you -really- want anways), you skip the hassel of having to distribute the oil to the 12 cities with HI.
3. The real reason to bring oil to Oz then, falls back to fueling the HI at the aircraft plants. But they're producing Wirraways and Beuforts, and who cares about them? (ok, the Beforts don't suck, but who really cares if you produced 20 Throwaways or 60 in a month?).

-F-

[strawbuk]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

maybe we should replace the explosion soundbit when a ship strikes a mine with that soundbit from Nemo.

'PG Toshi Maru strikes Type 1 mine'
(MINE! MINE! MINE! MINE! MINE!)

'yer rats with wings..'

what aircraft would we apply that too?

(ooh I made hero without a single, useful sensible post)

[madflava13]

Supply most certainly IS a concern in Oz. Sure you have enough to run defensive ops, but try keeping PM supplied while running Heavy Bombers out of Darwin or some other Oz base... Your supply will evaporate in no time. A fun trick is to check the daily consumption at a base before setting B-17s to attack... Then check the daily consumption for the first day of attacks. Where'd the supply go?!

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Feinder

true. [S N I P]
-F-

head hurtin.......pressure building.......too much information to process...........


Relieves pressure by booting up DOOM 3 for some logistically free senseless violence..... [:D]

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735

Someone else came up with this reasoning, but I'll repeat it here.

Oz doesn't produce enough supply or fuel on its own to support offensives. So, you need to ship in supply and fuel from US. However, if you ship oil, then the HI in Oz will produce supply AND Fuel. So, it's much more efficient to ship oil to Oz than it is to just ship in fuel.

I ship it all in. Supply, fuel and oil. You're bringing in 100 ship task forces anyway. Why not have 5 or 6 tankers full of oil too?

100 ship convoys. We could really use daily operations maximums for ports guys.

[Ron Saueracker]

By July 42 in my PBEM game I've been running convoys to Oz since 41. Loads of supply and fuel everywhere in OZ. Have not shipped a drop of oil.

[madflava13]

I agree, but I just don't know how you code that sort of thing...

When the Allies ran super-big convoys to Europe, how many ships could Portsmouth handle? Or Murmansk for that matter? I know we ran big groups over, but I don't know how long it took to unload them. Anyone have numbers?

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: madflava13

I agree, but I just don't know how you code that sort of thing...

When the Allies ran super-big convoys to Europe, how many ships could Portsmouth handle? Or Murmansk for that matter? I know we ran big groups over, but I don't know how long it took to unload them. Anyone have numbers?

I'm sure someone does. Historically, this was a big problem. Even with the shipping shortage, Aukland had queues of ships lined up waiting for berthing space, and literally tons of perishable cargo was destroyed on the docks when it rained.

They have operations points for ships, they know how.

[Bradley7735]

Yes, I'd like to see port logistics modeled accurately, but my example is 100 ships from LA to Sydney. I'm not trying to be gamey. But, I'm not going to set up dozens of smaller task forces just to send supply and fuel to Oz. And, if LA or Sydney can't handle 100 ship task forces then the designers should have made the limit smaller.

Duh, Oz doesn't need oil. But, if you ship 1000 oil to Oz, you will eventually get 1000 fuel AND 1000 supply. You still have to ship in more fuel and supply, but it doesn't hurt to ship in oil. For those of you who don't want to deal with oil, HI, resources and everything else involved with production, then play the allies and don't worry about it. The ONLY thing I ever do with Allied production is ship 50,000 oil to Sydney every 6 months. If I forget, then so what. There's still so much fuel and supply that it doesn't make any difference.

sheeesh.

[freeboy]

Bradley,
Why not just ship the supplies into Oz, I ship tons from India?
btw sorry about the name, you "b" guys all look the same [:@]

[Bradley7735]

Hey, I'm not Brady! I think he's down in Oregon.

I do ship supplies to Oz. I also ship Fuel. In fact, if I ever got to 1943, then I'd stop bothering with Oil.

Here's the deal. In 1941 the US doesn't have very many ships to send stuff to all the points on the compass. If I take one TK and load it up with 18,000 oil and send it to Sydney, then I will have shipped 18,000 supply AND 18,000 fuel (the HI produces both over time). That took me ONE ship. If I sent supply and fuel, it would have taken me FOUR ships. (three AK's and one TK)
Yes, I still have to ship in supply and fuel because Oz can't convert oil that fast. But, I've saved 3 AK's that can now send supplies to Alaska, Midway, Noumea, wherever..................................

By mid 42, the allies have enough ships that its no big deal. Once you have enough ships to do what you want, then forget about sending oil to Oz. The only other benefit you get from this is that you get to see cargo numbers in pretty pink font. The allies just never get to see that. Damn fuel just shows up as white font. [:'(]

[Nikademus]

only one problem with that. I hit 1/15/42 and up till that point, you were right...shipping scarce...then in one day San Fran got something like 90AK and 96 TK as reinforcements. Suddenly there was no dearth of shipping. Thats in fact how i was able to form my first 30-35 ship tanker CS for Oz.

Took me by suprise.....i kept expecting the "reinforcements arriving" to stop but it just kept going and going. Thats alot of ships!