SKI troops can't assault armour.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Sat Feb 09, 2002 9:09 am

I just got done getting my *** kicked in a PBEM game. Was it silly of me to assume armour won't move into a small town unescorted by infantry (well they can if you move them in there)point is, it is usually not a good idea. At first I thought this is great some easy meat. Then my attacks went in with absolutly no results. I can only assume the following, ski troops are crap and don't buy them in a pbem game, or problem with the oobs. Has anybody else come across this phenonenon?

Supervisor · Post by **Supervisor** » Sat Feb 09, 2002 10:25 am

Honestly don't recall an event in which I had a ski troop in position to assault armor. But now I'll make sure they stay far away if they are that poor. I forwarded this to our OOB grand poohbah, I'll let you know what he says.

[ February 09, 2002: Message edited by: gmenfan ]</p>

oldrocky · Post by **oldrocky** » Sat Feb 09, 2002 11:31 am

I've recently been having great success with soviet and german ski troops. Halftracks and TDs are vulnerable to thier inf weapons.

Redleg · Post by **Redleg** » Sat Feb 09, 2002 11:36 am

I just tested some ski troops - destroyed several armored cars, light, medium tanks with no problem at all.

Can you elaborate on what ski troops and what year? I'd like to pursue this a bit more.

Galka · Post by **Galka** » Sat Feb 09, 2002 12:38 pm

Originally posted by Jack:
I just got done getting my *** kicked in a PBEM game. Was it silly of me to assume armour won't move into a small town unescorted by infantry (well they can if you move them in there)point is, it is usually not a good idea. At first I thought this is great some easy meat. Then my attacks went in with absolutly no results. I can only assume the following, ski troops are crap and don't buy them in a pbem game, or problem with the oobs. Has anybody else come across this phenonenon?

Hi Jack

I've had trouble in the past with any troops that aren't equipped with AT weapons. I'm playing a game now when even my partisans can't kill a tank.
Trouble is they have no molitovs, and I've read the routine for non AT equipped troops is different from a squad perhaps equipped with a captured PF.

I've had more luck with partisans killing vehicles when it occurs during the other players turn.

Fredde · Post by **Fredde** » Sat Feb 09, 2002 2:34 pm

I've noticed this as well in earlier version that Ski troops can't perform close assaults (Finnish ones at least). If this is still so, it is wrong, because anything you could do on feet you can do with skiis as well if you are trained on it.

Svennemir · Post by **Svennemir** » Sat Feb 09, 2002 6:49 pm

I have seen the problem earlier - with both SO and GE Ski inf. The problem, I believe, that they are quite "infantry" in the game. That was in version 5.01, and it might have been fixed for some nations. I know something else has been fixed, because earlier the Ski Inf could

1) Not assault
2) Not be overrun
3) Not melee - neither as attackers nor defenders.

As I said, much of this has been fixed, but some of it might still be there. And about the assaults, regular infantry can do assaults, even crews(!), without any Molotovs, PzFaust or other AT weapons. So Ski Inf should be able to do it, also.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Sat Feb 09, 2002 9:02 pm

Redleg,
They where Russian ski troops in a 46 battle. I am playing in the Combat Command league.

Charles2222 · Post by **Charles2222** » Sat Feb 09, 2002 9:07 pm

All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe that we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near. Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him.

Ah, that must be where brave cowardice comes in! We must seem bold, when we are running away by saying things like: "I bet you can't do that again, punk!" or "Just try following us and we'll really get mad."

BTW, I've mentioned on another thread that the ski troops won't clear mines, for what, the upteenth time now? Am I the only one drumming the cause for the ski troops mine-clearing being non-existent? Should I retreat the cause with bold tauntings?

[ February 09, 2002: Message edited by: Charles_22 ]</p>

Supervisor · Post by **Supervisor** » Sat Feb 09, 2002 9:16 pm

Turned the issue over to the OOB Grand Poohbah's. Waiting to here their take on it.

brianleeprice · Post by **brianleeprice** » Sat Feb 09, 2002 9:28 pm

Originally posted by gmenfan:
Turned the issue over to the OOB Grand Poohbah's. Waiting to here their take on it.

Unfortunately Mr Wizard, I'm going to have to throw the snowball right back to your side of the fence.

Ran it past some of the team, and verified the behavior. Ski Troops aren't doing close assaults nor clearing mines. We examined the OOBs and found nothing wrong there.

My assumption at this point is that for some reason, class 29-Ski Troops is not considered an infantry class for close assault and mine clearing purposes.

After examining the issue in re the OOBs, I don't see any easy OOB workaround that doesn't, at the very least, totally fubar the purchasing screens.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful,
Brian

Charles2222 · Post by **Charles2222** » Sat Feb 09, 2002 10:24 pm

I suspect they fall into some sort of truck class. I'm not aware of their inability to assault, but I can vouch for Gerry ski troops not clearing mines (and oh, how I've tried).

Redleg · Post by **Redleg** » Sat Feb 09, 2002 11:20 pm

I tested Finnish Skiers 1939 and they are armed with molotovs - work fine.

I'll look at a couple of other ski formations.

brianleeprice · Post by **brianleeprice** » Sat Feb 09, 2002 11:23 pm

Originally posted by Redleg:
I tested Finnish Skiers 1939 and they are armed with molotovs - work fine.

I'll look at a couple of other ski formations.

What version mech.exe are you using?

Supervisor · Post by **Supervisor** » Sun Feb 10, 2002 1:07 am

Thanks Brian for giving it a look over. Will try some independant testing and let you now of any enomolies.

Drex · Post by **Drex** » Sun Feb 10, 2002 1:39 am

Old Rocky is right. He used Ski Troops with devastating effect against my armor and infantry. they are well nigh invisible in winter, but in aan urban setting they might be at a dis-advantage visibility-wise but their effectiveness should still be the same.

brianleeprice · Post by **brianleeprice** » Sun Feb 10, 2002 1:56 am

Please include SP:WAW version number (for both mech.exe and OOBs if different) as well as nation and year/type of ski troop unit in test/incident results so I can try to make absolutely positive that there isn't something fishy in the OOBs.

Thanks,
Brian

Redleg · Post by **Redleg** » Sun Feb 10, 2002 3:03 am

Apparently the ski troops have been given the magic wand treatment in V7.1 They have lost their AT weapons and don't clear mines or barbed wire.

At least this is so with Sov, Germ, Finn. I didn't bother to try to hunt up any others.

I don't see much point in testing the failure to fight armor until there is something ready to test.

brianleeprice · Post by **brianleeprice** » Sun Feb 10, 2002 3:08 am

Originally posted by Redleg:
I don't see much point in testing the failure to fight armor until there is something ready to test.

Understand, was wondering whether it worked correctly in v7.0 or v6.1 apparently it does in one of those.

Did the Ski Troop classification have any special properties or were they just infantry with a seperate class?

Thanks,
Brian

Fredde · Post by **Fredde** » Sun Feb 10, 2002 3:20 am

It's not only the lack of Molotovs or other AT weapons. Even if they have them, they use them, but not for close-assaulting. Of course they can be lethal just hurling around as well, but in principle, they should be able to attack just like normal leg infantry.