Armor Losses in Iraq

[RBWhite]

Just listenning to the news of late from Iraq, I keep hearing of Army and Marine losses in armored assets.

I could see Marine amphibs and lavs, Army Bradleys, old M109 personell carriers, etc.. I keep hearing and seeing off and on about M1A1 & M1A2 being knocked out and burning.

I wonder what the hell those insurgents are using in the way anti tank weapons. Can't see an RPG penetrating the M1's depleted uranium composite armor, thats if they are penetrating the armor. Engine compartment maybe, knock off a track maybe.

I fired a few of those RPGs over 30 years ago, hard to aim and too much recoil to hit where you aimed unless your right on top of your target. Or if just pot luck. Nasty little weapon I will say.

If they are using hand held which I don't doubt, What are they, who manufactured them, and who is getting them for the insurgents and from where. We know from news reports during the invasion that The Iraqi Republican Guard had some foreign made anti tank weapons but there didn't seem to be any concern about them.

Any recent tankers around or does anybody know someone who is over there or got back okay and who might know first hand?


Rick White

[Goblin]

I think a few were destroyed with improvised AT mines, which are relatively easy to make, especially if you have artillery shells or plastic explosives.

I agree, the RPG thing seems far fetched. I can understand the treads being damaged, but destroying the tank?

I did see photos of one of our tanks that was immobilized, and destroyed by the crew, IIRC.


Goblin

[RBWhite]

Thanks Goblin.





Regard,

Rick White

[Belisarius]

I don't think they use anything more advanced than RPGs. Probably more AT mine weapons, looted or improvised. An RPG can, with a lucky hit, set fire to an APC though.

Just read that the much debated Strykers are doing great down there. Apparently, troopers love them.

[RBWhite]

Thanks Belisarius


I gather you like the StuG. It sure did seem to be a good assault weapon.


Thanks

Rick White

[New York Jets]

I thought one or two of them were knocked out by rear hits with the old Soviet versions of the TOW missile system.

[ancient doctor]

There has been a discussion before some weeks about armor in Iraq plus RPG and had some interesting info here in GD forums.
Anyway it doesnt really matter what heats you.Been in a tank as a crew man in a middle of a city without outer infatry cover is a deadtrap no matter how evolved and efficient the tank is still the probability to be hit is high since the distance is very low.If you survive or not to tell your story afterwards is a different question.

[RBWhite]

Chris Trog

Thats what I was thinking. From the rear around the engine comparment.

As far as I know the Abram's armor was tested against everything the Soviet had. I think the only one they had that gave the US any concern was tube lunched missle I think was called a Spandral, I think thats how its spelled.

It was fired from the barrel of the T-72 on up. I'm not sure if they had developed anything different.


Thank

Rick White

[riverbravo]

Its kinda hard to tell unless you know a person who was there and saw/survived the hit.

My buddy Sabot (some of you guys know him,he was in the first gulf war) said the only M1's he saw get blown was when a bunch iraqi's threw up the white flag so they (3AD) kept rollin and the troops behind them would pick up the prisoners.Well,IIRC some fanatics in one of the russian tanks ( T-72's) turned its turret and capped an M1 from about 100 meters in the @ss end and destroyed the M1 and its crew.The M1's then traversed and made quick work of the russian garbage.

When I asked about how the commie stuff compared to the M1 and I quote he said ' they burn nice'....nough said!!!!

Also he was chasing the Kawa-tunga? Sp?...division of the republican guard throughout the entire 3 or 4 day ground war.Anyway he said they rolled up on a wadi or some type of valley and the TC peered through his specs and noticed there was a tank division eating lunch outside the vehicles (villers boccage anyone?) one volley from a few platoons of M1's was all it took.

Judging from pics who's to say that the crews themselves didnt bail and destroy the vehicle or maybe the raki's torched the evil infidels tank after the crew bailed....who knows?But as stated buy another poster in this thread a tank in the city isnt the best place on the battlefield to be.

[RBWhite]

riverbravo

Thanks

Very interresting.


Rick White

[2ndACR]

ORIGINAL: riverbravo

Its kinda hard to tell unless you know a person who was there and saw/survived the hit.

My buddy Sabot (some of you guys know him,he was in the first gulf war) said the only M1's he saw get blown was when a bunch iraqi's threw up the white flag so they (3AD) kept rollin and the troops behind them would pick up the prisoners.Well,IIRC some fanatics in one of the russian tanks ( T-72's) turned its turret and capped an M1 from about 100 meters in the @ss end and destroyed the M1 and its crew.The M1's then traversed and made quick work of the russian garbage.

When I asked about how the commie stuff compared to the M1 and I quote he said ' they burn nice'....nough said!!!!

Also he was chasing the Kawa-tunga? Sp?...division of the republican guard throughout the entire 3 or 4 day ground war.Anyway he said they rolled up on a wadi or some type of valley and the TC peered through his specs and noticed there was a tank division eating lunch outside the vehicles (villers boccage anyone?) one volley from a few platoons of M1's was all it took.

Judging from pics who's to say that the crews themselves didnt bail and destroy the vehicle or maybe the raki's torched the evil infidels tank after the crew bailed....who knows?But as stated buy another poster in this thread a tank in the city isnt the best place on the battlefield to be.

During GW1 no M1A1 was lost to enemy fire and no tank crewman was killed. By lost I mean destroyed. We took a few mission kills. Engine hits, one had its gun barrel bent, tracks knocked off etc.

[madflava13]

From what I've seen and read, they are getting knocked out by IEDs - Basically a bunch of explosives or an unexploded 500lb bomb rigged for command detonation.