How To Win

[LewFisher]

Gentlemen,
I am new to BIN but not to wargaming. I just finished the OVERLORD scenario as the German against a human opponent. I surrendered at about turn 26 as I was, I think (900+ points behind).
I lost Carentan at about game turn 10 and Cherbourg about turn 15 (I didn't try to really hold Cherbourg). At the end of the game my opponent was no where near Coutances, St. Lo and had not captured Caen. In addition I had a continious, fairly strong line across my entire front. I realize I did take a good number of loses, but was not the idea to contain the Allies? I did make a number of counter attacks at his weak positions, but it did not seem to help.
What was wrong with my strategy and what should I have done to have given myself a chance to win.[&o]

Thanks, Lew Fisher

[Fred98]

I am an experienced player and I dunno.

I am in a similar position a current game at turn 10. I am leading by about 2,500 points ( predicted score )

I will now have to give up Carentan and Cherbourg will fall in about 8 – 10 turns.

Unfortunately he captured St Lo which has put a great dent in my line. He may bag half my army. The final result will depend upon how many troops can escape from the pocket. I think not many....

[joey]

I just completed two games against a human opponent. In the first game, I was penned up on the beach the entire game and could not take a single city. However, the score was a draw. I have to wonder why. Scoring seems to be a bit enigmatic.

[LewFisher]

As it was my first game, I played the german somewhat conservative and like I said did not really fight for Cherbourg. I also lost a good numberof units. I did try to rotate units in and out, but with the German tring to maintain a cohesive front, easier said than done. I guess part of my problem is I try to look at the battle as a general, less as a game player.

[Gregor_SSG]

ORIGINAL: LewFisher

Gentlemen,
I am new to BIN but not to wargaming. I just finished the OVERLORD scenario as the German against a human opponent. I surrendered at about turn 26 as I was, I think (900+ points behind).
I lost Carentan at about game turn 10 and Cherbourg about turn 15 (I didn't try to really hold Cherbourg). At the end of the game my opponent was no where near Coutances, St. Lo and had not captured Caen. In addition I had a continious, fairly strong line across my entire front. I realize I did take a good number of loses, but was not the idea to contain the Allies? I did make a number of counter attacks at his weak positions, but it did not seem to help.
What was wrong with my strategy and what should I have done to have given myself a chance to win.[&o]

Thanks, Lew Fisher

Lew,

If you head over to www.ssg.com.au and look at the Run 5 discussion forums, you can read through the reports of the PBEM Overlord tournament. The consensus there seems to be that the game is quite balanced, and the PBEM community can be relied upon to let us know immediately if they think otherwise.

I'm sure that if you ask, some of those players who won as the Germans will be happy to tell you how they did it.

Gregor

[freeboy]

Lew did a good job to shore up his defences toward the end, but took terrific casualties and was on the verge of being overrun till about 23, the ? was more directed to how can I win while I hold all those obj... and I have felt that way many times as Allies in Tao3/4...
the answer hold obj while not losing too many of the weaker two step or even weaker 1 step units... he is also a new player to pbem, so given that he did great! My first pbem game against a good player saw me totally humbled...

[TheHellPatrol]

[8D]I've been at this since the minute it was released and am just "now" getting the upper hand. I have had a decisive victory as the Axis in Across the Dnepr (once or twice) but the ai is a vigilant bast@#d[:D] in BiN. I am now 2000 points ahead at turn 27 but i have nothing left to fight with...God only knows. This game, Battles in Normandy, is one that will give you great rewards for proper "gameplay". It can become quite addictive once you start to appreciate the inner workings and, not to mention, what each side was really up against in this epic struggle. I can't put it into words as eloquently as some other forum users, Adam[:D], but this is a true gem in regards to time invested vs. rewarding gameplay.

[bostonrpgmania]

Hellpatrol

I am really interested how your campaign would end
Could you please keep me posted?
(in fact if you could send me a save file as of now (2000), it would be even better

Currently I am playing as german with computer-.(due to some known issue with normal AI)
I am now currently winning by 850. well would be decreasing fast ...

[TheHellPatrol]

ORIGINAL: bostonrpgmania

Hellpatrol

I am really interested how your campaign would end
Could you please keep me posted?
(in fact if you could send me a save file as of now (2000), it would be even better

Currently I am playing as german with computer-.(due to some known issue with normal AI)
I am now currently winning by 850. well would be decreasing fast ...

I look you up when i get home from the Mountains...right now the only wargaming i'm doing is with a snowball[:D]....WHOP!!![X(]

[AnimalAl]

Well I completed my first Overlord scenario as the Allies, bagged Carantan and some smaller cities but not Cherbourg, St Lo, or Caen. I made the bastard bleed though in the end (German AI), it did seem after turn 20 that he started running out of steam and I was finally able to get moving. Kept getting hung up on entrenched brigades digging in along the line, and my 8-1 and 9-1 odds just were not budging them. I know, more maneuver, less fire. I learned a lot, now will try German side.

My question to you all is this: At the end of the game, the scoreboard comes up, Axis wins by 1064 or so. Fine. He held his cities, but given 15 more turns, I would have had them all (more or less on historical timeframe). I noticed my scorecard showed Allied objectives taken - 25, points -- (blank). Axis objectives 65, points - 750 (or something like that). I thought, why am I not getting points for Carentan and the other small cities I took? That's not right, is it?

Can any of you suggest what I did wrong, did I hit the wrong button, have to occupy all the cities all the time? Unclear on this issue.

[Fred98]

You need to check those cities by right clicking. Then you can see how many points each side receive fro holding those ciities - and which turns they they receive the points.

[AnimalAl]

Yes, I noticed that feature, used it, and still looks like the allies get zero points for holding the city of Carentan for 10 of the 32 turns for instance. Not sure what happened here, will try to replicate it and maybe I can explain better.

[Fred98]

Thats a part of the planning.

There are some turns where one side or the other receive no points for holding the town.

Study all the towns and all the scenarions and you wil see the variation.


Holding a town until "X" turn or defending it until "Y" turn is a big part of calculating the victory points.

[AnimalAl]

Dammit!!! Something that maybe should have been stressed in the manual and tutorial maybe!!![:@]

[Gregor_SSG]

ORIGINAL: AnimalAl

Dammit!!! Something that maybe should have been stressed in the manual and tutorial maybe!!![:@]

If we stress every single salient point that could arise in a game as complicated as BiN, then we end up with a manual at least twice the size that it currently is, and run the risk that we ultimately communicate nothing.

The manual does state the Objectives only give VPs when they are active, that is for specified turns.

From 29.5:

Active
This group or groups of turns indicates the period during which an objective is active for a given side. A side will receive the VP value of the objective for each turn it controls the objective during this period.

This isn't a radical concept in computer wargames. Essentially, in gaining VPs you are in a race against your historical counterparts. If you achieve objectives when they did, then the game (leaving aside considerations like VPs awarded for unit destruction) will be more or less a draw. Get there quicker, and you should win, take too long, and you should lose.

It's always a extremely difficult balancing act between assumed knowledge and turning the rulebook into a trilogy, but I'll have a look at the manual for the next game, and see what I can do.

Gregor

[AnimalAl]

I understand your point, the War in the Pacific manual at 220 pages becomes unmanageable. I just think the point of "how to win" needs to be clear, maybe not each step but at least so we (novice) players understand the score at the end of the game. I am enjoying BiN very much, still working with the AI to master it prior to going to PBEM.