F8F & B32

[bstarr]

Anyone have any recommended stats for these two? Or any other stats for latewar, afterwar, and/or duringwarbutnotincluded planes? (either side)

[rhohltjr]

ORIGINAL: bstarr
Anyone have any recommended stats for these two? Or any other stats for latewar, afterwar, and/or duringwarbutnotincluded planes? (either side)

Yes. Go to mathubert.free.fr and have a look around. I sent in a spreadsheet (on 8/24/04)with F8F stats and some others for the witp public. Don't know about the Dominator though. One thing you will find, is that there are no available carrier aircraft slots in the database to put these late war aircraft in,... to go from 1941 - 1946.

You will have to edit a late war scenario to put them in. Another thing is the art work for these great planes has not been developed yet[:(].

Give me some feedback about my late war aircraft data. Thanks. Oh yeah, congrats on being in Texas.[8D]

[bstarr]

One thing you will find, is that there are no available carrier aircraft slots in the database to put these late war aircraft in,... to go from 1941 - 1946.

I'm thinking about deleting the Vindicator and the Sea Hurricane to make way for the Bearcat and the Sea Wolf. The little mod I have going gives Japan more of an edge, so the late war aircraft may be more important.

Go to mathubert.free.fr

can you link me? I can't seem to find it. btw, I suck at computers. If you don't believe me, check out my latest confusion in the forum below.

Oh yeah, congrats on being in Texas.

I have a plaque in my livingroom that says, "Never ask a man where he's from. If he's from Texas, he'll tell you. If he's not, don't embarrass him.

[rhohltjr]

ORIGINAL: bstarr

I'm thinking about deleting the Vindicator and the Sea Hurricane to make way for the Bearcat and the Sea Wolf. The little mod I have going gives Japan more of an edge, so the late war aircraft may be more important.

Don't forget about the P-26 and the Devestator. [:D]

can you link me? I can't seem to find it. btw, I suck at computers. If you don't believe me, check out my latest confusion in the forum below.

http://mathubert.free.fr/ if you still can't find it I can try to personal mail send it to you.

[mlees]

Googled "f8f Bearcat", found this site. He's got stats for the F8F, compare these to the Hellcat, and use what the in-game F6F stats as a guidline for the Bearcat. It's a start...

http://www.anft.net/f-14/grumman-f6f5p.htm

[bstarr]

http://mathubert.free.fr/ if you still can't find it I can try to personal mail send it to you.

Oh! Spooky's site! I didn't recognize it. I've got that one under favs.

Don't forget about the P-26 and the Devestator .

actually, I meant the devestator and the the sea gladiator . . . You know, I always get the vindicator and the devistator mixed up. Oh, and I'm using the P-26 as my "generic outdated plane" in the Chinese Air Force . . . definitely different, but it's working quite well so far.

Googled "f8f Bearcat", found this site. He's got stats for the F8F, compare these to the Hellcat, and use what the in-game F6F stats as a guidline for the Bearcat. It's a start...

http://www.anft.net/f-14/grumman-f6f5p.htm

I found another good site but I'm on the computer at work, so I don't have the address. I'll post it tonite.

[bstarr]

here tis

http://www.daveswarbirds.com/usplanes/american.htm

[rhohltjr]

ORIGINAL: mlees

Googled "f8f Bearcat", found this site. He's got stats for the F8F, compare these to the Hellcat, and use what the in-game F6F stats as a guidline for the Bearcat. It's a start...

http://www.anft.net/f-14/grumman-f6f5p.htm

http://mathubert.free.fr/witp_files/MissingPlanes.xls

More than a start.[:)]

[bstarr]

Good God Almighty! Now I know why the Bearcat wasn't included in WITP. Considering the poor state of the jap pilots at this point in the war, they would be fodder (of course, at this point in the war jap pilots were fodder, teehee). This thing has the maneuverability of a P51 with better climb and better armament and its carrier-borne!

stats I came up with:
max speed: 434
cruise: 163
climb: 4570 (!!!)
alt: 38900
man: 37
Dur: 31 (I reduced by one from F6F due to F8F's lighter structure)
end: 350
armor: 1
4x 20s for guns
and a pair of 500s below.

btw,
rhohltjr, how do you open an excell file? [&:] I never did get to look at your stats (told you, I'm that bad at computers). I figure these are probably pretty close on this bird, but the site I used wasn't as well documented on nonfighters.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: bstarr

Good God Almighty! Now I know why the Bearcat wasn't included in WITP. Considering the poor state of the jap pilots at this point in the war, they would be fodder (of course, at this point in the war jap pilots were fodder, teehee). This thing has the maneuverability of a P51 with better climb and better armament and its carrier-borne!

stats I came up with:
max speed: 434
cruise: 163
climb: 4570 (!!!)
alt: 38900
man: 37
Dur: 31 (I reduced by one from F6F due to F8F's lighter structure)
end: 350
armor: 1
4x 20s for guns
and a pair of 500s below.

btw,
rhohltjr, how do you open an excell file? [&:] I never did get to look at your stats (told you, I'm that bad at computers). I figure these are probably pretty close on this bird, but the site I used wasn't as well documented on nonfighters.

Actually the original F8F-1 had 4 50Cal MG in the wings. This was the version that began to re-equip fighter squadrons in Spring, 1945. The 20mms were introduced in the F8F-1B Post War.

[Tankerace]

One problem though.... unless you remove an a/c, there are no more remaining Allied carrier capable slot. So, your Bearcat could only be used by Marine units.

Unless, for your scenario, you remove the Avenger II, and rename the Avenger I to Avenger. They are practically the same plane anyway.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

One problem though.... unless you remove an a/c, there are no more remaining Allied carrier capable slot. So, your Bearcat could only be used by Marine units.

Unless, for your scenario, you remove the Avenger II, and rename the Avenger I to Avenger. They are practically the same plane anyway.

Another candidate is the SB2U Vindicator. A better idea would be more carrier-capable slots.

[Tankerace]

The SB2U should stay in I think, because it did serve (albeit badly). If you yank out the Avenger II its no loss, because the only difference is about 5 mph and 1 mnv point (I think on that last one).

[bstarr]

Actually the original F8F-1 had 4 50Cal MG in the wings. This was the version that began to re-equip fighter squadrons in Spring, 1945. The 20mms were introduced in the F8F-1B Post War.

I did not know that. Thanks. Change made.

One problem though.... unless you remove an a/c, there are no more remaining Allied carrier capable slot. So, your Bearcat could only be used by Marine units.

Already thought of that. I've removed the sea gladiator (I went ahead and gave 800 squadron their fulmar upgrade). I'm thinking of removing the devestator to allow for the Sea Wolf. This mod has a lot of other "experiments" so the Sea Wolf will probably appear sooner or later.

[Tankerace]

So what is the US gonna use 1941-late '42, nothing, or "experimental" TBFs?

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

The SB2U should stay in I think, because it did serve (albeit badly). If you yank out the Avenger II its no loss, because the only difference is about 5 mph and 1 mnv point (I think on that last one).

Sorry Justin - I should have said move the SB2U to a non-Carrier slot. The best answer would be for Matrix to increase the number of carrier-capable slots (actually, the real best answer would be to parameterize carrier capability but I don't think there's any hope of that). Here's my thoughts on possibilities:

Remove options:
Sea Gladiator
Avenger II (good idea Tankerace)

Move to Non-CV slot
SB2U Vindicator (was only serving with Marines by 12/41)

Rename/replace option
Wildcat V with Martlet and change availability to 4/42 - functions as Martlet II, Martlet IV, Wildcat V - all of which were F4F-4 and variations

Add options:
Sea Hurricane
F8F-1 Bearcat
Wildcat VI (effectively an FM-2)
F8F-1N Bearcat nightfighter

Best Option:
INCREASE THE NUMBER OF CV-CAPABLE SLOTS!!!!!!!

[rhohltjr]

ORIGINAL: bstarr

btw,
rhohltjr, how do you open an excell file? [&:] I never did get to look at your stats (told you, I'm that bad at computers). I figure these are probably pretty close on this bird, but the site I used wasn't as well documented on nonfighters.

Oops! I guess I assumed you had access to excel either at work or at home. My bad. This is a jumbled up version of my spreadsheet. Hope you can
gleen some useful info out of it. Sorry the columns got compressed. Did the best I could. Ki-93, Kikka and G8N1 are Japanese very late war aircraft. My data is a
congloberation of several different sources including Gary Grigsby's old games.
[8D] If you need any clarification let me know. Some of the data is really squashed!!!


F8F F7F F2G2 P80 Ki-83 Kikka G8N1

Name F8F Bearcat F7F Tigercat F2G2 Corsair P80 Shooting Star Ki-83 LREF Ki-200 Kikka G8N1 Rita
Type Fighter FightrBmr Fighter Fighter Fighter Fighter HvyBmbr
Bit Map TBD TBD TBD TBD TBD TBD TBD
Max Spd 434 445 450 594 438 464 360
Cruise Spd 163 222 165 410 279 360 242
Climb Rate 4800 4360 5950 4580 4000 2593 1495
Max Alt 38900 40700 38000 45000 41535 39370 33465
Upgrade F8F F7F F2G2 P80 Ki-83 Kikka G8N1
Maneuver 37 34 37 48 37 31 4
Durability 32 40 36 32 30 24 50
Endurance 398 405 463 80 465 90 1331
Armor 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
Max Load 2000 4000 3500 3000 220 1102 8818
First Mth June May October May January October May
First Year 1945 1945 1945 1945 1945 1945 1945
Build Rate 100 50 80 90 0 0 0
Pool 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Aircraft
Weaponry
Wpn 1
Device # 161 161 161 161 189 193 188
Device 0.5" or 20mm 0.5" 0.5" 0.5" 20mm 30mm 20mm
Number 4 4 6 6 2 2 2
Facing forward forward forward forward forward forward TT

Wpn 2
Device # 203 168 204 204 193 208 188
Device 500lb 20mm 1000lb 1000lb 30mm 250kg 20mm
Number 2 4 2 2 2 2 2
Facing XT forward XT XT forward XT BR

Wpn 3
Device # 95 199 188
Device 22"Mk13 30kg 20mm
Number 1 2 2
Facing XT INT R

Wpn 4
Device # 181
Device 13mm
Number 2
Facing S

Wpn 5
Device # 181
Device 13mm
Number F
Facing

Wpn 6
Device # 197
Device MXY7 Ohka
Number 2
Facing XT

Wpn 7
Device #
Device
Number
Facing

Wpn 8
Device #
Device
Number
Facing

Wpn 9
Device #
Device
Number
Facing

Wpn 10
Device # 237 241 238
Device Mitsubishi Ishikawajima Nakajima
Number 2 2 4
Facing Forward Forward Forward

[bstarr]

Thanks! this is neat. I had included the Rita as well, our stats are almost identical. Great minds think alike i guess.

Bowen and Tankerace,
Since by the time of Pearl it's mostly a marine plane the devestator could be moved to a noncarrier capable space. Not that it's not historically carrier-capable, just that carrier ops would be rare for units equiped with this plane, but the Bearcat woouild certainly see carrier action.

[Tankerace]

Are you sure you are thinking of the right plane? The Douglas TBD-1 Devestator, the only NAVY torpedo plane until the Grumman TBF-1 Avenger began arriving in limited numbers in mid 1942. Equipped ALL US Navy Torpedo Squadrons. No Marine unit used the Devestator. Are you thinking of the Vought SB2C-1 Vindicator? That was used heavily by Marines.

[Feinder]

Changing the aircraft that are -really- similar is a great idea.

Another cosideration for removing planes are the ones that upgrade very early in the war (not sure if there are any). But something like the Vindicator (already mentioned), get upgraded to SBD in only a week or so? They're pointless, because the SPD replaces them before so quickly, likely before they even see combat. Maybe the CV Buffalos. Nobody ever uses them. So just remove the Bufflalos, and start with F3s. Sure, you take "historical accuracy" hit for the first 2 weeks (about how long until the upgrade). But you're only talking about a 2 week time frame. And even if there was an action in those first two weeks vs. F4F3s (that should have still be Buffalos), it's not like you're going to be THAT much better off. Zeros with 90 exp are clobber you whether driving a Buffalo or and F3. So I dont' see the harm in deleting the Buffalos (also), and simply replacing them iwth F3s (because the Buffalo's contribution isn't much before it's upgraded).

-F-