Another niche: the Med

[Arsaces]

A Med game would be marvelous. All those beautiful Regia Marina designs. One can dream...

[MadmanRick]

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Well, if we (the community) can edit the map (as has been talked about) and decide to do a Mediterranian mod, I'll do the ship graphics for it.

Operation Herkules, that'd be a hoot.

I'd be happy to do some oob work, either naval or air. I'd also be willing to work on scenarios!

Rick

[MengCiao]

ORIGINAL: m10bob

"Mare Nostrum" has been much neglected in the CPU wargame industry.I sure hope this becomes a reality.
BTW,"Mare Nostrum" was a board game from the seventies depicting this theatre,I suspect some of our older players may remember it,possibly one of James Dunnigans' games??

I played it. It was bad. There have been some good Med-centric games and Conquest of the Aegean ought to be one of the best games yet.

The Whole Tunisia campaign makes a very good relatively self-contained game, at least in terms of the ground fighting and there's a lot of parachuting back and forth until well into the Italian Campaign.

I guess the UV scale would be much better for the Med. than the Witp scale.

[CatLord]

I have an old French wargame (called "Amirauté", dating back to 1979) and his supplement, about the Med theatre (called "Mare Nostrum"), which must have most of the ww2 ships characteristics.

There would be a lot of interesting what-if with the French fleet in such a game/mod.

I am going back to France in December, so I may try to find this old and dusty cardboard box back if anyone is interested....

Cat

[MengCiao]

ORIGINAL: CatLord

I have an old French wargame (called "Amirauté", dating back to 1979) and his supplement, about the Med theatre (called "Mare Nostrum"), which must have most of the ww2 ships characteristics.

There would be a lot of interesting what-if with the French fleet in such a game/mod.

I am going back to France in December, so I may try to find this old and dusty cardboard box back if anyone is interested....

Cat

There are also minatures style boardgames (or table-top games anyway) that summarize the ships to some degree.

[Feinder]

And this is an advantage of (eventually) allowing open source to your player base. The players actually get things done faster than the devs. Not meant to be a slam on the devs. There are only so many, and they want to go home to their families when the day is done. Enter player development, and you've got somebody who doesn't mind spending an entire Saturday, then staying up until 3am designing a AAA gun on patrol boat.

Player devs are great. Problems -will- be solved. Doesn't matter how hard the task is. If you have a dedicated player base (and WitP certainly does, look at the number of mods we have already), there really is very little that you -can't- do (or fix).

One of the Cons tho is, the issue is "which is the master copy". You've now got 25 versions of a program, all with different fixes and OBs. It's certainly possible to have versions hosted at a site (say Spooky's). But when people want to play each other, you have to make sure you're running the same verions and mods (yes, it's already like that somewhat with Lemur's mod, it just means you're gonna get a LOT more versions if you open source).

Another wrinkle is, Matrix doesn't make any more money if they open source. Sure they can sell units, and make some body. The tap doesn't dry up completely. But you sell a lot less units (so you wait until sales are tapering off). Now anybody can host the game, and offer a dowload (legality not withstanding).

But I digress. Yes, given opportunity, players would probably much faster than you think, create a viabel Med Scenario, complete with new maps, OB, and probably even a "kick your a$$ five ways from Sunday", AI component also.

-F-

[MengCiao]

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

If someone is going to do WWII in the Mediterranean with emphasis on the naval and air aspects, treating it (as UV does) as a conflict over control of vital bases, I need the whole campaign from Taranto (or thereabouts) to Italy's surrender (or thereabouts).

I think that the main ground conflict up in Europe can be abstracted out of the design. I also think that the fluid war in the desert can be simulated within the terms of the basic UV engine. Ten or 15 mile hexes are an intriguing possibility that would do a lot to put you inside the texture of this theater of war while keeping you at objective enough distance to give you a feeling of strategic command. Your options would always be limited by events in other theaters (including the Pacific, which would be a constant drain on your force allotments), so that flexibility in planning and attention to accomplishing only that of which you are capable would be at a premium.

Man oh man, give me Cape Matapan ... I'm down on me luck, just give me Tobruk ... We will never falter as long as we hold Gibraltar ... I'm a-callin' a halta after we take-a Malta.

Taranto to the Italian surrender? That might work. It might be better to start with several variations on the fate of the French Fleet...since the Little Kingdom might feel mighty peculair if the French Fleet either goes non-Vichy and sets up in North Africa or joins the Brits flat out.

Other possibilities are: France and Britain intervene in the Spanish Civil War or over Eithiopia.

I guess the Black Sea and the Red Sea can be left out...but you may need a snip of the Atlantic or even the Bay of Biscay.

[sprior]

You would need to find a way of forcing the RN to tak epart in the madness that was the Greek and Crete campaigns too. You need to find very compelling reasons to force my destyoyers and cruisers under those Stukas!

[MengCiao]

ORIGINAL: sprior

You would need to find a way of forcing the RN to tak epart in the madness that was the Greek and Crete campaigns too. You need to find very compelling reasons to force my destyoyers and cruisers under those Stukas!

Play the Ultra-long campaign and blow the Fascists out of the water in 1937 and you might avoid the Aegean difficulties that might otherwise (nay, as certain as the morning dew) arise or descend as the case may be.

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: MengCiao
I guess the UV scale would be much better for the Med. than the Witp scale.

And we could avoid all those BS bugs.

I think maybe 10-15 miles per hex???

[Ron Saueracker]

Hexes would have to be further subdived into six smaller hexes for any kind of land combat to work. Need some old style wargame standards applied as SOP. Else it would be too abstract.

[jnier]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Hexes would have to be further subdived into six smaller hexes for any kind of land combat to work. Need some old style wargame standards applied as SOP. Else it would be too abstract.

Please don't try to model the North African land campaign [:@]

As all of the whiners on this board have been quick to point out, land combat over large expanses is not the strong suit of WITP. If a Med mod is to work, all land combat in North Africa & Italy should be HIGHLY abstracted. A game that focuses on air,sea, and critical bases (e.g. Gibraltar, Malta, Crete) could possibly be very successful.

[MadmanRick]

ORIGINAL: jnier

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Hexes would have to be further subdived into six smaller hexes for any kind of land combat to work. Need some old style wargame standards applied as SOP. Else it would be too abstract.

Please don't try to model the North African land campaign [:@]

As all of the whiners on this board have been quick to point out, land combat over large expanses is not the strong suit of WITP. If a Med mod is to work, all land combat in North Africa & Italy should be HIGHLY abstracted. A game that focuses on air,sea, and critical bases (e.g. Gibraltar, Malta, Crete) could possibly be very successful.

Folks keep in mind that if a Med mod is done for UV/WitPby players/fans, it would be basically limited to whatever limitations those engines have, be it land combat or otherwise. We won't be redesigning the wheel, but rather adding more spokes to it.

Rick

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: jnier

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Hexes would have to be further subdived into six smaller hexes for any kind of land combat to work. Need some old style wargame standards applied as SOP. Else it would be too abstract.

Please don't try to model the North African land campaign [:@]

As all of the whiners on this board have been quick to point out, land combat over large expanses is not the strong suit of WITP. If a Med mod is to work, all land combat in North Africa & Italy should be HIGHLY abstracted. A game that focuses on air,sea, and critical bases (e.g. Gibraltar, Malta, Crete) could possibly be very successful.

Yep, I can agree with that. Like Bomb Alley had. A front line. Always like it.