PBEM AAR, Belphegor vs. Oleg - OLEG thread

[Oleg Mastruko]

Interesting AAR.

It`s much appreciated. Some questions.

What is the hex size ?

500 x 500 meters. It's not "hex" actually it's square though I call it hex too [8D]

Can the Mech. Inf. fight dismounted, if so how does Terrain affect that ( if it does? )

Mech INF can't dismount. It's on the Robert's (main developer) wish list though. Keep in mind nature of the battlefield is so BRUTAL they would not last long (once spotted they don't last long anyway).

I`m curious how Arty. spotting works in the game, as well as it`s overall effectiveness. ( in Game terms )
Can you go into some detail on that please, especially delays, and if the same model is used for both sides.

Without going into too much detail... You can plot arty fire in any "hex", spotted or unspotted. If you fire "blindly" you won't hit a thing though. Blind firing is useful only when you're laying smoke, chemical or minelet barrages (then hex being observed or not does not make a diifference - hex is supposed to be "chem-ed" or mined, you don't target individual vehicles, you target hex area).

If his unit is obseved by some of your units, you can plot fire on him, BUT it's not very practical: a) he will move away if he's spotted; b) he will most probably be killed by the ground unit that spotted him before your arty fires, or he will kill the unit that spotted him (thus ruining your spotting). Always keep in mind this game is BRUTAL.

So, having that in mind, best thing you can do (beside using arty to drop minefileds if you're NATO) is to put arty "on call" or on "counter battery" orders. This way, your HQ (AI) will use arty as it sees fit. It will react on targets of opportunity during turn replay phase, without need for you to plot arty missions.

Also, if you move lots of your units and/or give lots of orders, it's assumed your HQ generates lots of radio traffic (see EW gauges at the bottom). If you generate lots of radio traffic, your HQ may be located and "stonked" (arty may fire on your HQ).

Arty is not nearly the same for two sides. NATO arty is MUCH beter (though NATO player usually has less arty units).

Also why did you chose to defend with a River at your back [X(]

I didn't really. His axis of advance is parallel to the river, not vertical. It's a small and "crossable" river, anyway, big river on this map is to the east (seen on some of the early screenshots).

PS: If his Arty. is killing your helos that a rather serious Game flaw.........................

As I said in the post I just sent, I have no idea how to realistically kill modern armored helo on a battlefield, and whether it can be done by arty... I really can't comment on that. BTW my arty is killing his helos too [:D]

O.

[Oleg Mastruko]

Turn 19. Arty and mortars opened "neutralizing" (ie. strongest possible) barrage on his helos, and killed all three of them, right at the start of this turn.

Now, I will say this...

a) I personally have no idea how (un)realistic this arty vs. helo thing is.
b) Main developer Robert has been notified of this thread and arty vs. helo issue, and now it's up to him to decide whether it's intended or should be treated as bug
c) Rules say that "non AA unit firing on helo, using direct or indirect fire, has very low (less than 2%) chance of hitting". Now, in this game we both did fire zillions of rounds on helos (both his and mine) so we both "earned" to score. Whether the fact that we scored with arty, instead of, say, Bradley auto cannon, is bug, is up to Robert to check/see/decide.

OK; with his helos out of picture, and most of my helos either killed, or unarmed, or very low on ammo, we're back to bloody business of tank/IFV vs tank/IFV fighting. There were some shots exchanged, and some vehicles killed on both sides. My 2/B platoon lost 3 tanks, which, for my small units, are devastating losses, but we don't have lot to go, and he suffers losses too.

I am continuing to clear sector 6. He still has 2 units in that sector that I know of, but don't see (or see only occasionally).

Two out of three my mortar units are without any ammo.

I ordered my arty to open "neutralizing" barrage on 17-vehicle unit in SE corner. My arty is thus firing two turns in a row without changing positions and will almost certainly draw his arty counter batery fire on themselves, but I don't care.

Oleg

[Oleg Mastruko]

Turn 20. Not much happened, just some scattered artillery exchanges. Has he given up?

Picture shows the situation (as I see it) in sector 6.

O.

[Oleg Mastruko]

Turn 21. Some fighting in NE part of that sector - losses on both sides.

Heavy artillery barrage on his units in SE corner. So heavy, that my artillery units run out of ammo - again (they replenished some ammo just couple of turns ago). But their "neutralizing" fire disabled 4-5 enemy vehicles there, and that's a good deal IMO.

O.

[Oleg Mastruko]

Turn 22. Very little artillery fire in this turn - my mortars and guns are without ammo, and I guess his are no better.

Medium range massacre of frightful proportions continues in sector 6. Overall picture is almost unchanged from that screenshot couple of posts above, only the number of vehicles steadily goes down for both sides. (Ammo levels go down as well.)

2 turns left! 2030 hours, dusk will soon envelop this bloody battlefield. Who will control vital sector 6 by nightfall?

BTW, he does not appear to by trying to sneak past my "guard" units on left and right flank, to get to sector 1.

Battalion artillery replenished some ammo, I'll use it to lay minelet barrage in remaining "entry" hexes in SE corner of sector 6.

O.

[Oleg Mastruko]

Just to let you know - based on input from this thread and us beta testers Robert already fixed "arty vs. helo" problem and made new build of the game available for the beta testers!

I hope this little episode helps show to sceptics why the game release was delayed, and that it's with a good reason - to make the game better and fix bugs before the release.

O.

[Oleg Mastruko]

Turn 23. Dusk fell on the battlefield. One more turn to go.

Fighting rages on - losses on both sides. Hits being obtained on distances ranging from 500 to 4000 meters.

I do hope to end this game with more vehicles in sector 6 than he, that is all.

THOUGH, my staff assistant reports that my lead in killed vehicles is so great (140-some to 30-some) that EVEN if he TAKES sector 6, I should win. He gets 100 points for that sector, and since my lead in KIA'd vehicles is greater than that I should win nevertheless.

I don't want to appear boring with this VP calculation stuff (I don't care all that much about winning really) just to explain you how this part of the game works.

O.

[Oleg Mastruko]

Turn 24. Fire exchanges continued although visibility fell to 2500m.

This was last turn. I guess the game will end once Belphegor opens the turn I sent him, and he will be presented with final situation and final victory tally. I can't wait to read what he wrote in "his" thread but I won't do it until he confirms that this scenario ended.

O.

[Belphegor]

Ohhh, so THAT'S what happened to me!

Great thread Oleg! I can see where we were on the same page, and where I totally missed things. Fun to read from the other side now, and quite entertaining. It would have been better if you were talking about some other poor shmuck's #ss instead of mine. [:'(]

[Oleg Mastruko]

Turn 25.

That's it. It's over! Decisive NATO victory.

I *think* the game would end here even if this wasn't the last turn. There is a rule that says game automatically ends when one side falls under 20% OOB strength, and WP fell to 18% right in this last turn.

PHEW!! It was a great, very enjoyable, very tense wargaming experience, with lots of nailbiting moments! This game is absolutely brutal, and it plays so fast that sometimes I felt as if I am playing some of those new mindless RTS shoot-everything in sight games with units dying all around. But of course this game is endlessly more deep than that.

Belphegor was great as adversary. Next time I am going to play Soviets...

I sincerely hope this AAR showcased some of the features of this upcoming game, and showed to nay-sayers there is a reason for waiting/delays/whatever, after all, and that it will be, hopefully, worth the wait.

O.

[Oleg Mastruko]

This is the final victory tally, ie. staff screen, with FOW lifted.

Sector 1 - we both ended with 0 vehicles there, and netted 0 points each. Had he managed to sneak a single tank there, he would be getting 100 points for that (but I took care that he can't sneak by my positions).

The bloody sector 6 - 42 NATO vehicles, 7 WP vehicles, 100 points awarded to NATO.

Sector 12 - I would be getting 100 points if I managed to have more units there than him at the end of the game, but I had 0 units there. There appears to be a bug, in that I was awarded additional 38 points for sector 12 (I don't know why, we have to check with Robert about this).

Finally, NATO destroyed 160 enemy vehicles, WP destroyed 33. Taht's simple enough.

O.