Damaged BB's sink en route to West Coast

[stewart_king]

I started a CG as the Allies recently. I was gratified when the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor resulted in no sinkings. Four BB's were pretty shot up. Two were about 60-80 flotation damage, could only make about 3 knots, and so I left them in Pearl. The other two (Arizona and Nevada) were about 50-60 flt damage, could make 10-11 knots, and so I gave them a couple of DD's as escort and sent them off to San Fran to get fixed up. About a week later, I get messages that first one, then the other, sank while underway. Looking at the sunk ships database, they are listed as having been sunk by AP bombs, that is, no sub attacks or anything like that. Anybody have any idea why they would suddenly take a turn for the worse? Weather a possible factor? I didn't notice any bad weather but it is December.

Stewart King

[Tankerace]

If you have ANY ship over 30 flt damage, don't move it. What happened is since you didn't leave them in port, but sent them out half filled with water, their flooding increased, until they sank. If you had left them at Pearl, they would have survived.

It says AP bomb, because that was the last weapon to strike the ship. So, while underway, it flooded out and sank, and gave the credit to the last weapon to hit the ship.

My advice? Next time, leave your ships at Pearl until ALL the Flt damage is repaired, and then send them to SF. Never send a ship to sea with heavy flt damage, especially if it can't do more than 15 knots, unless you absolutely have to.

If flooding is under 30, you can chance it (I wouldn't), but flooding above 50, at sea, will usually increase. And if the ship is slow, and can't make port, it will sink.

[Halsey]

Bottom line: Never try to move ships that have greater than 35 flotation any long distance. As for the PH ships, I wouldn't move them till it was at 0. Too many IJN subs lurking around.

[doktorblood]

The only ships I've seen with red flood damage that didn't get worse while underway are subs.

I once had a sub with 89 flood damage that I figured was a goner ... ordered it back to port anyway and a month later it not only made it back, but had healed all of it's flooding and most of it's sys damage as well!

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: stewart_king

I started a CG as the Allies recently. I was gratified when the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor resulted in no sinkings. Four BB's were pretty shot up. Two were about 60-80 flotation damage, could only make about 3 knots, and so I left them in Pearl. The other two (Arizona and Nevada) were about 50-60 flt damage, could make 10-11 knots, and so I gave them a couple of DD's as escort and sent them off to San Fran to get fixed up. About a week later, I get messages that first one, then the other, sank while underway. Looking at the sunk ships database, they are listed as having been sunk by AP bombs, that is, no sub attacks or anything like that. Anybody have any idea why they would suddenly take a turn for the worse? Weather a possible factor? I didn't notice any bad weather but it is December.

Stewart King

Sending ships out with flood damage is a major booboo. Not only does it risk the ships, but they are slower and the time you think you may save sending them to the coast early will actually result in longer repair travel times as leaving them in port until they are zeroed which gives them max speed.

[stewart_king]

Thanks!

It would be nice if there was some sort of warning for newbies when you try to do this. "You know, Admiral King, if you order us to sail we will but we're not going to make it to San Fran. Why don't you leave us in Pearl until we get the flooding stopped."

Any cheat codes to fix this up?

Stewart

[Bodhi]

ORIGINAL: stewart_king
Any cheat codes to fix this up?

Cheat codes, what are they? [:D]

[madflava13]

Unfortunately the only warning out there is the manual and common sense. Don't sweat it too much - i've made similar mistakes and I've been playing a lot longer than you have. There's a lot of info to remember, so I suggest making checklists - something to look over before clicking end turn, just to make sure you got everything.

A good rule of thumb is this: If the ship's got a hole in it now, don't sail it anywhere.

[dtravel]

ORIGINAL: madflava13

Unfortunately the only warning out there is the manual and common sense.

Which with this manual, means the only warning is the player's common sense. But that only works if the player is given some basic understanding of the game's mechanics, which would normally be gained from the manual.

[Bodhi]

Are you saying that the manual could be improved? If so, I'd agree with you, but when ever I mention it the usual response is "but it's over 200 pages long", as if size was all that matters.[;)]

[bradfordkay]

Maybe we should make it a community project to rewrite the manual?

Edit: this is not a jab at the manual, which I thought was well done. It's just that there is so much scope to this game that we are all still learning. I think that after we've all played the game for awhile, we could expand on the manual with both extra information on the rules and hot tips for newbies.

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Maybe we should make it a community project to rewrite the manual?

This is what's usually wrong with manuals in the first place.

A good editor's time will cost you upward of $150 per hour. A community effort generally winds up satisfying no one. The first thing that will happen is the old "I think the game should do this" debates will break out.

This manual's biggest problem is that it was written by those who don't know how to write manuals. Don't turn the task over to more people who suffer from the same deficiency.

[dtravel]

Any effort to re-write the manual would fail because Matrix/2by3 would not be willing to release enough information about the game mechanics to the players to allow them to write a decent manual.

Bah Humbug!!! [:@]

[Mr.Frag]

Any cheat codes to fix this up?

As in to unsink the ship or stop it from sinking in the first place? lol

The only cheat in WitP is your ability to change options after the game has started in non-PBEM games and your ability to load an old save and do something differently. [;)]

[Admiral DadMan]

ORIGINAL: Tankerace
It says AP bomb, because that was the last weapon to strike the ship. So, while underway, it flooded out and sank, and gave the credit to the last weapon to hit the ship.

I thought it was the largest weapon to hit, not the last...

[bradfordkay]

I think that it is neither. I've had ships hit earlier with 500lb bombs that were subsequently (a day or two later) hit with 18" torpedoes that ended up listing the 500 pounders as the cause of the sinking. Maybe it's the hit that causes the mortal damage? Though how that is calculated I have no real idea...

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

I think that it is neither. I've had ships hit earlier with 500lb bombs that were subsequently (a day or two later) hit with 18" torpedoes that ended up listing the 500 pounders as the cause of the sinking. Maybe it's the hit that causes the mortal damage? Though how that is calculated I have no real idea...

Probably the game calculates the total amount of damage caused by individual weapons (damage effect x random die roll)...

[stewart_king]

ORIGINAL: dtravel

Any effort to re-write the manual would fail because Matrix/2by3 would not be willing to release enough information about the game mechanics to the players to allow them to write a decent manual.

Bah Humbug!!! [:@]

Why not? I'd think that a community of players who are well-informed about the game mechanics is a very good resource. Or maybe I'm just spoiled by playing Paradox games a lot...but players could contribute a lot to making the game better, creating mods, and such that would then help sell more games and make the next version/next game better.

Stewart

[madflava13]

I feel like I have a pretty good understanding of the game mechanics... and all the info you guys are talking about wanting is available. Go to spooky's site and grab some of the FAQs, Hints, etc... it's all there I think.

[rhondabrwn]

What might be very helpful would be for some of our WiTP experts to simply annotate the current manual with changes and corrections resulting from the patches i.e. a thorough integration of patch release notes into the manual. My head spins when I try to even contemplate all of the changes and bug fixes that get discussed here in the forums!

Heck, I don't need the manual rewritten... just insert "Update" boxes into the current manual in appropriate places.

Another option would be to open the manual in Adobe Acrobat Professional )(if you have it) and insert text boxes and arrows to indicate changes or modifications. Along the same line, you can even highlight important text.

If I really knew the game that intimately, I would volunteer to do it!

However, if someone wants to send me the additions, I have Acrobat Professional and could add the notes......