Combined Historical Scenario - Devices

[PeteG662]

I just want to see consistency with the ranges....why is the range on an aircraft platform 5000 different from the range on a ship or land based platform?

[Lemurs!]

Yeah, i had a lot of fun with the .50 sniper rifle as a Marine.

I have to say the most 'accurate' rifle i have ever fired was the Parker-Hale(Hall?) hunting rifle that was adopted by the Canadian army.

Mike

[Lemurs!]

Hi all,

One thing we should think about is a total rebuild of the antiaircraft system.

The Japanese destroyers from the third group of Fubukis on were equipped with DP guns. Yes, i realize that they were not as good as the later guns or your magical 5/38. But, i do not like that the Japanese destroyers are given no AA capability.

Next, in my latest mod i switched the single 5/38s on the early American carriers with 5/25s. There are a plethora of letters from ships gunners, ships captains, even admirals, held in Washington complaining about how useless the 5/38 was in the single mount as it could not traverse worth a damn.

The British have a similar story with the 5.25 gun. It was widely considered the worst heavy AA gun of the war. The Dido cruisers with the 4.5 gun were never switched to the 5.25 because the 4.5 was so much better. Barrel droop, gun was too heavy for the traverse mechanism etc.

Now, on the other hand, the British 8" gun was considered an excellent AA barrage gun. However, for the most part Matrix and 2by3 decided that barrage guns are useless and don't count.

That does not match the historical record though, I have read many accounts of the 8" gun breaking up air attacks at range.

Mike

[akdreemer]

Another point came to mind while we are adjusting the devices. Need to creat an upgrade path for US ATGs. The Divisional ATG at the beginning of the war was the towed 37mm. In late 42 and early 43 the Divisions started upgrading to the towed 57mm ATG. This was the largest organic ATG to be found in US Divisions during WWII. 3" ATG's were organic only to the independent TD's BN's.

[Lemurs!]

I already created an upgrade path in my mod; if we use mine as a base we are already there.

Mike

[rhohltjr]

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

Now, on the other hand, the British 8" gun was considered an excellent AA barrage gun. However, for the most part Matrix and 2by3 decided that barrage guns are useless and don't count.

That does not match the historical record though, I have read many accounts of the 8" gun breaking up air attacks at range.

Mike

Are these forums great or what. OK what IS this 8" AA barrage gun ? Is this the same principle as the Japanese tried to use with their big ship rifles used as "shotguns"???

[Lemurs!]

No, It was not quite the shot gun effect, but it was quite effective.
The problem i have with Matrix's implementation of AAA is that all of their assumptions are based on close range fire. But, heavy AA guns were not used for close fire they were used in the initial barrage.
It is elementary geometry that the further away the target is, the less you have to worry about speed of traverse. And barrage fire was considered to be a very effective part of the AAA technique.

The gun was just the standard new model 8" gun.

Mike

[Don Bowen]

I am about to begin creating/modifying ship classes and would like to get a final (ok - semi-final) set of devices for use by ships (naval guns, torpedoes, mines, asw weapons, radar).

Does anyone know if new devices for these types can be added to the end of the device table?

I notice that like-type devices are grouped together, with LCU devices last. I also know that the location section is actually a group of several small sections (HQ, TOE, Bases, Land Units), each with a distinct slot-number range. I fear that devices may also be a bunch of sub groups and that we will have trouble adding new Naval Guns, Torpedos, etc. Has anyone successfully added devices at the end of the table (500s)????

Don

[Tankerace]

I think I remember seeing that ships can only use devices at the top of the table, not sure what the end number is though. I think it is limited to about 150-200 or so.

[Hipper]

Hi there I would like to second Lemurs call for a reduction in range for the early model AA guns

Numerous mentions at Singapore of the Japanese boming from above the effective range of 3 " AA guns

cheers

[Andrew Brown]

I have a question about the addition of another device:

The sources I have for Canadian coastal defences state that 12 pdr guns were used in an anti-MTB role. There is no such gun in the database as far as I can tell (my knowledge of artillery is minimal to say the least, so it may be there and I haven't recognised it). This is only a VERY minor use of a particular device, but I thought I would mention it in case there are completists here who think it could or should be added.

So is it worth adding?

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

I have a question about the addition of another device:

The sources I have for Canadian coastal defences state that 12 pdr guns were used in an anti-MTB role. There is no such gun in the database as far as I can tell (my knowledge of artillery is minimal to say the least, so it may be there and I haven't recognised it). This is only a VERY minor use of a particular device, but I thought I would mention it in case there are completists here who think it could or should be added.

So is it worth adding?

If it is a Coast Defense weapon, sure. We have plenty of land based device slots. Almost none for anything else.

Do you have data to build the device in WITP?

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
If it is a Coast Defense weapon, sure. We have plenty of land based device slots. Almost none for anything else.

Do you have data to build the device in WITP?

I am afraid not - I know virtually nothing about artillery and I have no references. I will do a search online but I don't know how successful I will be. Maybe someone else has information, or knows where to look?

[Tankerace]

Well, I have data for a generic 12pdr anti-torpedo boat gun that I use for War Plan Orange, should be something similar.

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Well, I have data for a generic 12pdr anti-torpedo boat gun that I use for War Plan Orange, should be something similar.

It's probably the same gun. It is usually mentioned in the context of "old" coastal defences in the WW2 info I have. If not it's probably close enough anyway. If you already have it done then it just needs to be added in.

Thanks,
Andrew

PS: BTW Tankerace - are you still short of names for ship captains in the War Plan Orange mod? If so, any room for me? Preferably an Aussie ship if there is one, otherwise British.

[Don Bowen]

I currently have three user-modified scenarios (Mine at V1.2, Ron Saueracker at V1.3, Lemurs at V.14). I am going to create the new scenario from a stock V1.4 Scenario 15 and incorporate changes from these three scenarios (plus additional changes from this forum or sent to me in email/PM).

This and the following two posts contain all the changes in three user-modified scenarios (compared to a stock sceanario 15). All modified devices are listed but only the first modification to each device. Note that some device changes in the Ron Saueracker modified scenario are not included due to an SQL error on my part - I'll get them later.

In general, these changes will be incorporated into the new scenario. Two Points:

1. I am currently expecting to incorporate Lemurs' Japanese Aircraft mods in total - which requires some of these changes be made.
2. I can not help but noticing the most of Lemurs' changes INCREASE JAPANESE capability and REDUCE ALLIED capability. Japanese Fanboy??

[Don Bowen]

Part Two of Three (or four as still need the rest of to review Ron's changes). Please excuse the duplication of device 515 - I promise to only change it once.

[Don Bowen]

Last of the devices - these are new or replaced.

[Andrew Brown]

Hi Don,

This is a late request. I realised while adding in data for Canadian coastal defences to my map mod that the 6inch CD gun is mobile. Because some of the Canadian batteries I am adding don't have heavier guns, this means that theoretically the forts can be picked up and moved by the Allies, which should not be allowed since they are fixed fortifications.

Is it possible to add in a new 6inch CD gun, which would be a copy of the current one (device 457) but with a load cost of 9999 and some armour (say 200-250)?

Thanks,
Andrew

[Lemurs!]

Hi all,

Not Japanese fanboy.
One of the mistakes some of the board members make is assuming that Matrix made this game pro-Japanese.
This is patently not so. The game provides a hidden mod for allied AA, yet the 20mm Oerlikon has 90 accuracy and the 25mm Hotchkiss has 33. The Japanese in the war never matched allied increases in fire control but at the wars begining they were considered to have the best fire control and damage control technology in the world.
Radar was the only field where Japan did not keep up.

Accuracy of AA weapons in this game in other words is based largely on rate of fire. Think about it. Hard. Even with my changes to some AA weapons the Japanese are still underrated.
The 25mm AA gun was a perfectly fine AA weapon that had a problem with ammo feed. That problem lowered its rate of fire from twice what the 40mm Bofors could do, to the same as the 40mm Bofors gun. The 20mm Oerliokon was widely considered a mediocre weapon yet in this game it is 3 times as effective as the 25mm gun WITHOUT the allied radar bonus.

The Allied 28mm gun is considered one of the worst AA weapons ever yet it has a base accuracy of 75; wow 15 less than the Oerlikon, only 2.3 times as high as the 25mm! So generous Matrix.

I reworked the accuracy values of AA weapons based on real rates of fire with slight adjustements for quality of various weapons.
Then i scaled my results back because I could here the Allied fan boys screaming 'they were just blind monkeys with sticks, they couldn't shoot anything down!' Wah!

The squad values were based upon another forum members work which was done comparing numbers of men and effective armament at different points in the war. Accurate not fan boy.

You may have noticed in heavy ship weapons i increased Allied capability not Jappanese. The American 14in guns should probably
have a slightly higher accuracy and penetration. The late war 14in was the best penetrator of any American naval gun. Yes, even the 16in/50.

I increased the accuracy of the 3.7in British AA gun.
I lowered the type 99 Japanese aircraft 20mm cannons accuracy.

This was based on as accurate of info as i can find.
If i had my choice the 25mm AA gun should have 75 accuracy or so. Not 40. But we wouldn't want Japan shooting something down.

Mike