HAVE TO ASK THIS QUESTION...

[mlees]

Here is the info I promised you, Mog!

Source: “Silent Victory” by Clay Blair pg 902-903

Submarine war patrols departing Manila, December 1941

Boat/Patrol number / Days/ Wartime Credit/ Postwar Credit/ Area / Note
Seawolf (#1) / 18/ 0 / 0/ East Luzon 1
Sculpin (#1) / 45/ 1/5,000t / 0 / East Luzon 2
Skipjack (#1) / 36/ 0 / 0 / East Luzon 3
S-39 (#1) / 18/ 1/5,000t / 0 / East Luzon 1
Tarpon (#1) / 33/ 0 / 0 / East Luzon 3
S-36 (#1) / 18/ 0 / 0 / West Luzon 1
Sailfish (#1) / 9 / 1/1,500t / 0 / West Luzon 1
Saury (#1) / 53/ 0 / 0 / West Luzon 2
Perch (#1) / 38 / 1/5,000t / 0 / Formosa 3
Permit (#1) / 9 / 0 / 0 / West Luzon 1
Stingray (#1) / 13 / 0 / 0 / West Luzon 1
Seal (#1) / 53/ 1/5,000t / 1/856t / West Luzon 2
Salmon (#1) / 55 / 1/1,500t / 0 / West Luzon 2
Porpoise (#1) / 39 / 0 / 0 / West Luzon 2
Shark (#1) / 12 / 0 / 0 / South Luzon 1
S-37 (#1) / 10 / 0 / 0 / South Luzon 1
S-38 (#1) / 18/ 2/10,000t/ 1/5,445t/ South Luzon 1
S-40 (#1) / 9 / 0 / 0 / South Luzon 1
S-41 (#1) / 31 / 0 / 0 / South Luzon 2
Sturgeon (#1)/ 17 / 0 / 0 / Formosa 1
Searaven (#1)/ 41 / 0 / 0 / Formosa 3
Pike (#1) / 21 / 0 / 0 / Hong Kong 1
Snapper (#1) / 53 / 0 / 0 / Hong Kong 2
Swordfish (#1) / 19 / 4/31,700t / 1/8,662t / Indochina 1
Pickerel (#1) / 21 / 0 / 0 / Indochina 1
Spearfish (#1) / 51 / 0 / 0 / Indochina 2
Sargo (#1) / 48 / 0 / 0 / Indochina 2
Seadragon (#1)/ 45 / 2/10,000t/ 1/6,441t/ Indochina 2
Permit (#2) / 6 / 0 / 0 / Lingayen 1
Pickerel (#2) / 30 / 2/10,000t/ 1/ 2,929t/ Celebes 2
Pike (#2) / 25 / 0 / 0 / Celebes 3
S-36 (#2) / Lost / 1/5,000t / 0 / Celebes Lost
S-37 (#2) / 35 / 0 / 0 / Celebes 2
S-38 (#2) / 20 / 0 / 0 / Celebes 2
S-39 (#2) / 23 / 0 / 0 / Celebes 2
S-40 (#2) / 42 / 0 / 0 / Celebes 2
Sailfish (#2) / 55 / 0 / 0 / Formosa 2
Seawolf (#2)/ 10 / 0 / 0 / Spec. Ops 3
Stingray (#2)/ 44 / 1/10,700t/ 1/5,167t/ Indochina 2
Sturgeon (#2)/ 46 / 3/20,000t/ 0 / Celebes 2
Shark (#2) / 7 / 0 / 0 / Spec. Ops 2
Swordfish (#2)/ 8 / 0 / 0 / Spec. Ops 2
Permit (#3) / 38 / 0 / 0 / Celebes 2
Totals: 40 war, 3 Spec Ops / 21/120,400t / 6/29,500t
Spec. Ops, in these cases, are transporting higher ups out of the PI to safety.

Notes: 1- Sub returned to Manila.
2- Sub Returned to Java.
3- Sub Returned to Darwin

Patrol credits should read x/y,yyy where "x" is number of ships, and "y" is tonnage.

Yuck! Yuck! The forum software deletes all my spaces and tabs! I'm So sorry that this is hard to read![:(]

[mogami]

Hi, I wonder about the ones that report "Returned to Manila. And have patrol lengths over 14 days. Since Manila was abandoned on Dec 23rd or 24th
In any event. I think in WITP Allied submarines are much more active and move directly into Japanese ASW. It works really well against Japanese players who do not provide escorts but it costs a lot of submarines against Japanese who "over" ASW

In two PBEM games I have encountered mass Allied submarines. (Like every hex in Celebes sea) I have responded with large Japanese ASW efforts (10xASW TF of 6 ships each and over 100 ASW aircraft)
I think it is a valid reaction because the ships are on hand and no Japanese TF can move a hex without being attacked. The submarines are contacted daily by aircraft so it is only natural that I go out after them.
(Are we supposed to ignore enemy submarines 1 hex from our major ports?)
I've had submarines laying mines in Osaka early in game. (They had to load at PH on turn 1 and go straight there)
I have ASW TF undocked in my ports. When the sub shows up it gets sunk. But this is an example of me not doing anything out of the ordinary. All ports should have an ASW TF assigned ()and a minesweeper detachment as well)
Although I do like it when a submarine tries to plant mines in a hex containing CD units.

[Mr.Frag]

Although I do like it when a submarine tries to plant mines in a hex containing CD units.

[:D]

[mlees]

Although I do like it when a submarine tries to plant mines in a hex containing CD units.

[:D]Haven't seen that. Do you bring popcorn to the show?

Hi, I wonder about the ones that report "Returned to Manila. And have patrol lengths over 14 days. Since Manila was abandoned on Dec 23rd or 24th

Comparing the list if those that made patrol #2, Pike and Pickerel made the longest first patrol at 21 days. (Both off Indochina.) Then Swordfish with 19 days, and so on. Permit: #1= 9 days, #2 = 6 days, #3 = 38 days.

BTW: Sealion is not on the list because it was destroyed in the Cavite Navy Yard by air attack on the 10th of December. Five of her crew were killed. Just adding this for completeness' sake.

[Nixuebrig]

@Mike Scholl

most movies (and not only war movies) are garbage, so I simply watch the good (historical) movies ?

And if you expect a high Level of detail, you should alway consider that there is a high number of possible bugs (errors, bad design decisions) which by no means can all be worked out by the testers of a small company. ok, maybe the designer is unwilling to correct the design failures (as we see them as), but that's another point.

Of course ground combat is strange and of course the China/Russian Theater Simulation needs a tweaking and of course other things need to be improved too, but the last time I checked, there was a statement that further improvements (patches) are in the works.(If not, I fully understand your point and need to appologise) If 2by3 was a company of the size like EA or another big one, i could understand this, but as this isn`t so, we just need need to give them some time. The Alternative would be to bring up the strength of the programmes/testers to that of a mayor company, remains the question, could we all afford the game then?

Maybe is was a bad psycholigical decision to start the developement of a new game before the other was made bug free, but that stands on another piece of paper.

So, as long as the support will continue, I will be satisfied, Rome wasn`t build in a day too .

[Mike Scholl]

PRINCE The statement you refer to was made in specific response to a post from
Ron saying that the developers were happy with ASW and no further patching was
to be done.....As that precluded anything being done about some obvious problems
that still exist, I was dissappointed.

I too would be perfectly happy with a promise of continuing support in the 2by3 tra-
dition.....I was upset with the announcement it would not be forthcoming......As I
mentioned, I was all for paying more for the game up front because I knew it would
need more "continuing support" than an ordinary game.....You are preaching to the
converted on that score.

Watching those few movies over and over must get boring.....You can probably view
all of them in the time it would take to read one serious history book.

[Charles2222]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, I wonder about the ones that report "Returned to Manila. And have patrol lengths over 14 days. Since Manila was abandoned on Dec 23rd or 24th
In any event. I think in WITP Allied submarines are much more active and move directly into Japanese ASW. It works really well against Japanese players who do not provide escorts but it costs a lot of submarines against Japanese who "over" ASW

In two PBEM games I have encountered mass Allied submarines. (Like every hex in Celebes sea) I have responded with large Japanese ASW efforts (10xASW TF of 6 ships each and over 100 ASW aircraft)
I think it is a valid reaction because the ships are on hand and no Japanese TF can move a hex without being attacked. The submarines are contacted daily by aircraft so it is only natural that I go out after them.
(Are we supposed to ignore enemy submarines 1 hex from our major ports?)
I've had submarines laying mines in Osaka early in game. (They had to load at PH on turn 1 and go straight there)
I have ASW TF undocked in my ports. When the sub shows up it gets sunk. But this is an example of me not doing anything out of the ordinary. All ports should have an ASW TF assigned ()and a minesweeper detachment as well)
Although I do like it when a submarine tries to plant mines in a hex containing CD units.

Maybe you misspoke, but it looks to me as though you believe that if a sub is in a hex and any other ship is in that hex, then at least one attack will take place per turn, correct? That's just not right!

[denisonh]

I use my subs as a screen around key ports and chokepoints, and they detect ships in the same hex even if they do not attack or get attacked.

I see it happen rather frequently, so I do not think that is the case.

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, I wonder about the ones that report "Returned to Manila. And have patrol lengths over 14 days. Since Manila was abandoned on Dec 23rd or 24th
In any event. I think in WITP Allied submarines are much more active and move directly into Japanese ASW. It works really well against Japanese players who do not provide escorts but it costs a lot of submarines against Japanese who "over" ASW

In two PBEM games I have encountered mass Allied submarines. (Like every hex in Celebes sea) I have responded with large Japanese ASW efforts (10xASW TF of 6 ships each and over 100 ASW aircraft)
I think it is a valid reaction because the ships are on hand and no Japanese TF can move a hex without being attacked. The submarines are contacted daily by aircraft so it is only natural that I go out after them.
(Are we supposed to ignore enemy submarines 1 hex from our major ports?)
I've had submarines laying mines in Osaka early in game. (They had to load at PH on turn 1 and go straight there)
I have ASW TF undocked in my ports. When the sub shows up it gets sunk. But this is an example of me not doing anything out of the ordinary. All ports should have an ASW TF assigned ()and a minesweeper detachment as well)
Although I do like it when a submarine tries to plant mines in a hex containing CD units.

Maybe you misspoke, but it looks to me as though you believe that if a sub is in a hex and any other ship is in that hex, then at least one attack will take place per turn, correct? That's just not right!

[Charles2222]

Phew! Thanks.

[Nixuebrig]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

Watching those few movies over and over must get boring.....You can probably view
all of them in the time it would take to read one serious history book.

Sorry took reading books for granted, next time I talk too you I will be more clear.