ORIGINAL: Philbass
Don/anyone working on the Combined Scenario,
As requested, I’ve been working on the Eastern Fleet/East Indies Fleet/British Pacific Fleet (going rather slow due to work and ill-health). I’m basically looking at all vessels that were serving or were slated to serve with a cut-off of arrival in theatre of December 1945.
Wow, Thanks - this is great!
Please have a look at the random comments below, and let me know if I’m going along the right lines. Any advice/instructions/comments are welcome so that I don’t end up wasting anyone time.
You asked for the auxiliaries/minor war vessels in particular, but I’m unsure to what level you would want including.
I’ve assumed that you are particularly interested in:
• Destroyer depot ships (HMS Woolwich, Montclare, Tyne) ;
• Submarine depot ships (HMS Adamant, Maidstone, Wolfe, Montclare);
• “Large” repair ships (HMS Resource, Wayland, Ausonia, Artifex, Alaunia);
• Hull repair ships (HMS Mullion Cove, Dullisk Cove)
• Mine issuing ship (Prome)
I’ve ignored destroyer and submarine tenders, accommodation ships, escort depot ships, minesweeper/motorcraft/escort maintenance ships, assorted specialised repair ships (such as air component, radar, electronics etc). I’ve also excluded the X-craft (midget sub) depot ship, HMS Bonaventure.
A little confused, as AD and AS are in both the include and exclude lists (we do want them). Plus all the ships
Woolwich thru
Prome in your list.
Other changes I’d suggest (when I’ve worked out the exact details):
• Reduce the number of escort carriers that have full airgroups (many were used as replenishment and ferrying carriers only)
I have a pretty decent book on Escort Carriers which gives use, arrival, and air group of all British CVE in the pacific. Should be good to go but could always stand correctons.
• Add in the cruiser minelayers (HMS Apollo, Adriane and Manxman) – useful as fast transports
Got them - Platoonist worked up an icon for us.
• Remove the submarines Vigorous and Vivid as these were used for ASW training only
Will do
• Change the submarines Clyde, Rorqual and Porpoise to their correct classes (Clyde was a high speed ‘Thames’ class boat, and the other two were minelayers of the ‘Porpoise’ class)
Done.
More suggestions as and when I get to think about them.
But I have some questions:
1) What about the Aircraft Maintenance carriers – HMS Unicorn, Perseus and Pioneer? I would probably argue for including Unicorn, as she operated a full air group during the Salerno landings (AVALANCHE) in September 1943 (and bizarrely conducted NGS during the Korean War). On the other hand we probably want to exclude Perseus and Pioneer, as:
‘all flying arrangements were deleted, making space available for the new equipment and the men to man it...Aircraft were embarked by crane from lighters and an extra crane was fitted for that purpose.’ Source: Brown, David (2000) Nelson to Vanguard: Warship Development 1923-1945 (London; Chatham Publishing) pp147-149.
Agree - we've included Unicorn as an operational unit, excluded the others.
2) What about the Fleet Train? I suggest limiting the BPF Fleet Train (the AEs) to what the British called ‘Armament Stores Issuing Ships’. Perhaps we only want a selection of these, as I can identify 16 of these that either reached the theatre, or were on route/nominated. Perhaps limit this to only 5 or so, to reflect the taut logistics that the BPF operated under. I suggest ignoring the ‘Naval Store Issuing Ships’ and the ‘Victualling Stores Issuing Ships’ for the purposes of the game.
As for oilers (AO), again I suggest that we only include a selection of these, to reflect the difficulties the Brits had in at sea refuelling.
Oh yes please. More data the better. We may pare it down for the scenario but I'd personally love to have this data.
3) What about the large numbers of frigates and sloops either on the way to, or nominated for the Pacific? These would take up a lot of slots, and I can’t imagine there would be many Jap subs to hunt. So I suggest we exclude most of these (although a lot of them were Canadian).
Again, the more data the better.
4) Alas, I suggest we also exclude,
‘that uniquely British contribution’ to the Fleet Train concept, the amenity ship Menestheus. She had a theatre seating 350, quiet rooms, a large NAAFI, a chapel and bars. The latter needed a brewery and one was designed which could brew 250 barrels a week. Source: Brown (2000) Nelson to Vanguard p149.
Of course we could include this floating brewery and have some house rules for it. Every time a ship is in port with the Menestheus roll a D6 and apply:
Result 1-2: The stars of ENSA perform all the contemporary music hall hits, the cinema show the latest Ingrid Bergman films and CPOs John Smith, Whitbread and Tetleys brew a particular potent batch of beer. Add +10 to morale of all crews.
Result 3-4: The Royal Artillery Concert Party play the theatre, Errol Flynn reruns grace the silver screen and a bunch of Aussies and Canadians brew up Dominion beers. No change to morale.
Result 5-6: The Royal Marines of ‘X’ turret perform the Ballet Nonsense in drag, In Which We Serve is on constantly in the cinema and Lt (jg) Brewski the USN liason officer has persuaded the brewery to produce American beers. Lose -10 morale from all crews.
Ah, er.. - was there a massage parlour??
Please give me a steer as to how you want to proceed with the research.
Regards,
Philip Bass
Just send anything you can find - PM or email or post. Love to have it all.
Thanks again.
Don
