First Impressions from a Beta Tester
Moderators: Joel Billings, Tankerace, siRkid
If that last post was total gibberish (haven't had my coffee yet), I'm trying to say that the flow of the game is much smoother than PacWar.
"Money doesnt talk, it swears. Obscenities, who really cares?" -Bob Dylan
"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket
"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the
"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket
"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the
Hehe...I got the point of the post and I'm glad to hear it...
Looking forward to receiving ice cubes with the game too =p
Any word on fighter capacity of the japanese carriers? Do they fill up to full capacity or do they stop short as was historical and like pac war?
If so, any way to force the game to fill them up?
Reiryc
Looking forward to receiving ice cubes with the game too =p
Any word on fighter capacity of the japanese carriers? Do they fill up to full capacity or do they stop short as was historical and like pac war?
If so, any way to force the game to fill them up?
Reiryc
I thought real wargaming started and ended with PacWar, then Combat Mission came out, and now this... life is full of surprises.
I'm curious about those fortifications and coastal batteries? Any experiences yet?
I read several surface battle descriptions and the results seem to be quite realistic... how are they really? this was one of the more serious failings of PacWar.
I also understand that the entire industry model (producing planes etc) is not a part of Uncommon Valour? or is it?
How exatcly are the amphibious landings modeled? Can they be nicely "interrupted" by a night surface action?
simply give me more...
I'm curious about those fortifications and coastal batteries? Any experiences yet?
I read several surface battle descriptions and the results seem to be quite realistic... how are they really? this was one of the more serious failings of PacWar.
I also understand that the entire industry model (producing planes etc) is not a part of Uncommon Valour? or is it?
How exatcly are the amphibious landings modeled? Can they be nicely "interrupted" by a night surface action?
simply give me more...
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Larry Holt
- Posts: 1644
- Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2000 10:00 am
- Location: Atlanta, GA 30068
I don't see why we wouldn't get a real manual. Big Time Software was just a two-man
operation and they included a professionally printed manual for Combat Mission.
And the fans have roundly praised BTS for the quality of the manual.
If we are going to be paying full price like you would expect to pay for any
top quality game at a local software store ($40-50 or so), then I would think we
should be getting a real manual. I don't mind paying top price for a quality
game, but I do expect to get a thorough printed manual. Especially for a detailed
wargame like this (you don't expect much of a manual with Quake, because there's
nothing to it but run around and kill things <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> ).
I'd even pay an extra 5 or 10 bucks just to get a professionally printed manual.
And considering that Matrix sells it's games direct, which means overhead is kept
to a bare minimum, I don't think it's asking too much in the way of extra expense
to include a real manual.
As I said, at least give us the option to pay extra to get a real manual with UV,
for the many of us that no doubt will want one.
I will *gladly* give Matrix an extra 5 or 10 dollars, if that's what it
takes to get an official manual with a nice front and back cover, and a table
of contents and an appendix. Just make it an option on the order form for UV. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
operation and they included a professionally printed manual for Combat Mission.
And the fans have roundly praised BTS for the quality of the manual.
If we are going to be paying full price like you would expect to pay for any
top quality game at a local software store ($40-50 or so), then I would think we
should be getting a real manual. I don't mind paying top price for a quality
game, but I do expect to get a thorough printed manual. Especially for a detailed
wargame like this (you don't expect much of a manual with Quake, because there's
nothing to it but run around and kill things <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> ).
I'd even pay an extra 5 or 10 bucks just to get a professionally printed manual.
And considering that Matrix sells it's games direct, which means overhead is kept
to a bare minimum, I don't think it's asking too much in the way of extra expense
to include a real manual.
As I said, at least give us the option to pay extra to get a real manual with UV,
for the many of us that no doubt will want one.
I will *gladly* give Matrix an extra 5 or 10 dollars, if that's what it
takes to get an official manual with a nice front and back cover, and a table
of contents and an appendix. Just make it an option on the order form for UV. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
In answer to the question what change the cycles, its an option switch on the options menu. Default is 1 day but set it from 1 to 7 or continous. I just have to echo what some of the other Beta Testers have been saying, the game is very easy to play the interface is faily intuitive allowing you to concentrate on making your decisions, ie. how much sea lift do I need to move the 1st Marine Division to Guadalcanal.
You can air transport units, though this is done over a period of several days. Equipment to heavy to be airlifted can be moved by sea and then married up with its parent unit.
The system is very stable. I have yet to see it crash and I've even alt tabbed out of it several time to do something on my desktop. It resumed just fine (I've played several games that didn't do this) I'm running XP Pro so if your worried about that, don't.
well back to playing ...er testing, I may have to break tonight to get some sleep though!
Mike
You can air transport units, though this is done over a period of several days. Equipment to heavy to be airlifted can be moved by sea and then married up with its parent unit.
The system is very stable. I have yet to see it crash and I've even alt tabbed out of it several time to do something on my desktop. It resumed just fine (I've played several games that didn't do this) I'm running XP Pro so if your worried about that, don't.
well back to playing ...er testing, I may have to break tonight to get some sleep though!
Mike
You can run but you'll die tired!
Well I have to chime in, this is too exciting to sit by and not ask questions.
My #1 beef with PacWar (the greatest WWII Pacific game ever.. thanks, Gary!) was that I could set airgoups to attack ships in port and they would instead decide to attack land units. A port does not move, the ships are there, so there is no reason for the planes to do otherwise wihtout a court martial. I can understand TF's being missed, etc. In late 1945 allied planes would ignore a tokyo bay full of ships and go for factories EVERY SINGLE TURN!!
Is this now resoved? Will the planes actually follow orders and hit a target that is stationary and can't fail to be found?
My #1 beef with PacWar (the greatest WWII Pacific game ever.. thanks, Gary!) was that I could set airgoups to attack ships in port and they would instead decide to attack land units. A port does not move, the ships are there, so there is no reason for the planes to do otherwise wihtout a court martial. I can understand TF's being missed, etc. In late 1945 allied planes would ignore a tokyo bay full of ships and go for factories EVERY SINGLE TURN!!
Is this now resoved? Will the planes actually follow orders and hit a target that is stationary and can't fail to be found?
Here is the approximate price breakdown for us Canadians to purchase this great game:
1) Game itself - $50.00 US (converted to Candian dollars with duties, etc works out to be about $100.00)
2) Print pdf manual - $49.00 for cartridge, $4.00 for paper, $5.00 for binder.
3) Total cost of game - $160.00 Canadian including taxes.
Ouch!
Mail order from the US is expensive enough, but you can really see the problem with a pdf only manual.
I would gladly pay an extra $5.00 for the game to get a printed manual included.
Thanks <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
1) Game itself - $50.00 US (converted to Candian dollars with duties, etc works out to be about $100.00)
2) Print pdf manual - $49.00 for cartridge, $4.00 for paper, $5.00 for binder.
3) Total cost of game - $160.00 Canadian including taxes.
Ouch!
Mail order from the US is expensive enough, but you can really see the problem with a pdf only manual.
I would gladly pay an extra $5.00 for the game to get a printed manual included.
Thanks <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
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Paul Goodman
- Posts: 180
- Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
I don't understand the big negative with the pdf game manual. Does your printed manual have a search engine? I think not. I would assume the game and the pdf manual could be available in separate windows at the same time, is that not true, beta testers. I personally think printed manuals are a relic of the past.
Paul
Paul
Hmmmm, can you hold your pdf manual in your hand and read it while laying on the couch? I think not. We won't even go into the eye strain issue of reading large quantities of text on a CRT... <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
As far as searching goes, thats why they invented the index. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Running multiple apps in a windows environment(particularly when it involves games) is asking for a crash. Despite the best efforts of programmers Windows just isn't that reliable. I'd much rather be able to hold the manual in my hands then risk a crash.
Given whats already been said about costs etc, I don't see why gamers shouldn't expect to get a printed manual when paying full market price for a game.
Is that enough reasons to want a printed manual. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">
As far as searching goes, thats why they invented the index. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Running multiple apps in a windows environment(particularly when it involves games) is asking for a crash. Despite the best efforts of programmers Windows just isn't that reliable. I'd much rather be able to hold the manual in my hands then risk a crash.
Given whats already been said about costs etc, I don't see why gamers shouldn't expect to get a printed manual when paying full market price for a game.
Is that enough reasons to want a printed manual. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">
" If it be now, tis not to come: if it be not to come, it will be now; if it be not now, yet it will come: the readiness is all"
Clan [GOAT]
Clan [GOAT]
Raster,
Let me reiterate how stable the system is. I'm running Windows XP Pro with SQL Server 2000 running in the backgroud. I've tabbed out of the program numerous times (as I'm doing at the moment) and have yet to see it crash.
I wanted to add abit about historical accuracy, one of my pet peeves. I'm playing the Gaudacanal scenario. Just received the CVE Long Island and shades of PacWar it has no airgroup. But the Long Island was used as an aircraft ferry. So I was able to transfer VMF223 to her sail her to about 10 hexes (300 Miles) of Guadalcanal and transfer VMF223 to Guadalcanal! Cactus Air Force is Born!
Mike
Let me reiterate how stable the system is. I'm running Windows XP Pro with SQL Server 2000 running in the backgroud. I've tabbed out of the program numerous times (as I'm doing at the moment) and have yet to see it crash.
I wanted to add abit about historical accuracy, one of my pet peeves. I'm playing the Gaudacanal scenario. Just received the CVE Long Island and shades of PacWar it has no airgroup. But the Long Island was used as an aircraft ferry. So I was able to transfer VMF223 to her sail her to about 10 hexes (300 Miles) of Guadalcanal and transfer VMF223 to Guadalcanal! Cactus Air Force is Born!
Mike
You can run but you'll die tired!
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Joel Billings
- Posts: 33495
- Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: Santa Rosa, CA
- Contact:
The manual issue is a major financial issue for publishers of niche products with small sales potential. As a user, I love to read manuals off-line. When I bought an HPS game I found that it wasn't that much to ask to have me print the manual (doesn't everyone have access to a printer at home or work or at an office supply store?). As long as the manual was done professionally (and UV is about as good as they get IMHO) then I'm ok with printing it. The manual is the one item where the price is very dependent on the quantity purchased, and once it's in the game, you have to keep providing it. You can't reorder 500 (or 100) manuals without the price being outrageous (500 CD's isn't so bad, even 100). Also, if the CD is going to be in a case of some kind, the manual won't fit in the case unless made much smaller than anyone wants it to be, another problem.
My opinion is that it is more important to spend some extra time and money to make sure the manual is good and then save the very high cost of printing manuals in small quantities by allowing customers that want a printed manual (yes most of you, including me) to print them out themselves. This make soooo much more economic sense for all concerned. I don't know for sure, but if you really want to buy a manual for $5-10, David might be able to arrange to print one out for you, although even there probably the cost of shipping and handling would make it cost prohibitive. If everyone that wanted a manual would invest just a little time in personnally printing the manual out it would make the publisher's survival much more likely and would keep the per unit cost of the game down. It even makes the Green Party people happy. My understanding is that in Germany they use small packages and on-disk manuals only (even for retail games) because they've determined that this saves a tremendous number of trees every year. I'm certainly not a tree-hugger, but they have a point. Obviously if you disagree you can take your business elsewhere and if enough people feel that way we're in trouble. But by putting up with this inconvenience you really are increasing the chance of a continuing product flow of products that might otherwise never see the light of day. I'm a gamer that has always loved to read manuals, but as someone that has also dealt with the business side of wargames for 20 years, I guess I'm pleading for some understanding here.
Joel
My opinion is that it is more important to spend some extra time and money to make sure the manual is good and then save the very high cost of printing manuals in small quantities by allowing customers that want a printed manual (yes most of you, including me) to print them out themselves. This make soooo much more economic sense for all concerned. I don't know for sure, but if you really want to buy a manual for $5-10, David might be able to arrange to print one out for you, although even there probably the cost of shipping and handling would make it cost prohibitive. If everyone that wanted a manual would invest just a little time in personnally printing the manual out it would make the publisher's survival much more likely and would keep the per unit cost of the game down. It even makes the Green Party people happy. My understanding is that in Germany they use small packages and on-disk manuals only (even for retail games) because they've determined that this saves a tremendous number of trees every year. I'm certainly not a tree-hugger, but they have a point. Obviously if you disagree you can take your business elsewhere and if enough people feel that way we're in trouble. But by putting up with this inconvenience you really are increasing the chance of a continuing product flow of products that might otherwise never see the light of day. I'm a gamer that has always loved to read manuals, but as someone that has also dealt with the business side of wargames for 20 years, I guess I'm pleading for some understanding here.
Joel
All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard
-- Soren Kierkegaard
Joel:
I do understand that small companies like Matrix have to operate in pretty strict
financial confines. And I very much appreciate the efforts of you fellows to
keep bringing us great wargames. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
But I want to make it clear that I'm not asking Matrix to put itself at some
sort of financial risk by including a manual with UV. I'm very willing to pay whatever
extra it costs to cover your expenses of having a professionally printed manual
made available to us to buy with UV. Whether that means charging $60-70 for UV
so that every disk goes out with a manual or just allowing us the option of
paying extra to get such a manual.
I think it's safe to say that the sort of people that are going to want to
buy UV (and WitP for that matter) are mostly the same sort of people that
definitely want a professionally printed manual to come with the game, and are
willing to pay any reasonable amount to get one. Certainly there is enough
demand to at least allow Matrix to order the manuals in enough quantity
to keep the cost per manual fairly low. And I'd be happy to pay whatever that
price is, plus shipping (and since the vast majority of people who order
the manual will order it at the same as they order the game itself, they can be
shipped together, thus keeping shipping costs to a minimum for the customer).
So feel free to charge us whatever it takes for us to at least have the option
of ordering a nice manual to go with UV. It doesn't have to be super fancy,
just black and white, with a nice front and back cover and a good binding
that will stand up to plenty of use while one relaxes on the couch poring over
all the wonderful details of naval warfare. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: Dunedain ]</p>
I do understand that small companies like Matrix have to operate in pretty strict
financial confines. And I very much appreciate the efforts of you fellows to
keep bringing us great wargames. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
But I want to make it clear that I'm not asking Matrix to put itself at some
sort of financial risk by including a manual with UV. I'm very willing to pay whatever
extra it costs to cover your expenses of having a professionally printed manual
made available to us to buy with UV. Whether that means charging $60-70 for UV
so that every disk goes out with a manual or just allowing us the option of
paying extra to get such a manual.
I think it's safe to say that the sort of people that are going to want to
buy UV (and WitP for that matter) are mostly the same sort of people that
definitely want a professionally printed manual to come with the game, and are
willing to pay any reasonable amount to get one. Certainly there is enough
demand to at least allow Matrix to order the manuals in enough quantity
to keep the cost per manual fairly low. And I'd be happy to pay whatever that
price is, plus shipping (and since the vast majority of people who order
the manual will order it at the same as they order the game itself, they can be
shipped together, thus keeping shipping costs to a minimum for the customer).
So feel free to charge us whatever it takes for us to at least have the option
of ordering a nice manual to go with UV. It doesn't have to be super fancy,
just black and white, with a nice front and back cover and a good binding
that will stand up to plenty of use while one relaxes on the couch poring over
all the wonderful details of naval warfare. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: Dunedain ]</p>
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Lex Morton
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: Scotland
I can easily live without a printed manual as I am sure the gameplay will keep me at the screen for eons anyway!If I need history I can get FANTASTIC stuff for free at Nihon Kaigun www.combinedfleet.com Failing that I have plenty of books already (but I can ALWAYS use more!)
I say go with the DVD case size (small no big manual) and and try and sell it in bulk on a sale or return basis via petrol (gas) stations and suchlike with one or two POS (point of sale) posters,for display in the gas station or whathaveyou to tweak interest.Make the price cheaper to allow the chance of 'impulse' purchases.
I would also rather cheekily like to suggest that you perhaps send a 'review' copy or two to the guy who runs Nihon Kaigun as he is a hero!He will also,I'm sure,review it and post a link on where to purchase it too.
Yours Lex Morton
PS If you are ever looking for someone to post stuff from within Europe to cut down (perhaps) on postage etc then give me a shout.Maybe use paypal and I'll burn and send the CDs! <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
I say go with the DVD case size (small no big manual) and and try and sell it in bulk on a sale or return basis via petrol (gas) stations and suchlike with one or two POS (point of sale) posters,for display in the gas station or whathaveyou to tweak interest.Make the price cheaper to allow the chance of 'impulse' purchases.
I would also rather cheekily like to suggest that you perhaps send a 'review' copy or two to the guy who runs Nihon Kaigun as he is a hero!He will also,I'm sure,review it and post a link on where to purchase it too.
Yours Lex Morton
PS If you are ever looking for someone to post stuff from within Europe to cut down (perhaps) on postage etc then give me a shout.Maybe use paypal and I'll burn and send the CDs! <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Joel
A pdf file works for me. Especially if you can post it on your website and update it as changes are made to the game after release. Even if you can't do that I would rather print it myself and keep the cost of the game down.
elmo3
A pdf file works for me. Especially if you can post it on your website and update it as changes are made to the game after release. Even if you can't do that I would rather print it myself and keep the cost of the game down.
elmo3
We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw
WitE alpha/beta tester
Sanctus Reach beta tester
Desert War 1940-42 beta tester
WitE alpha/beta tester
Sanctus Reach beta tester
Desert War 1940-42 beta tester