Forgive me : yet another thread!

[TomH]

I began the Overlord scenarui last night because someone suggested it was actually a good way to see how the game's dynamics fit together. And it was. Also, it was very enjoyable too[&o]

My first 'problem' was discovering the 'anchor' button which allowed my troops to unload and storm the beaches. As it was, I thought 'wow, no losses at Omaha!'. Hmm, that didn't last...

Then I discovered the wonderful effect of naval gunfire and after silencing a few coastal batteries and strong-points, my troops did an awful lot better. I am still confused, however, as to why, on D+4, I'm still losing chaps on certain beaches, even though the front has moved 5 or 6 hexes inland?[&:]

In respones to these losses I have carried on destroying strongpoints and fortifications even though they're nowhere near my beaches. CAn anybody explain why this happens? If I land in some hexes I seem to have no losses, others I may lose an entire arty battery or 2 steps on a motorised infantry regiment - not good...

At the end of D-day, I was ahore on Utah with few losses, but only managed one hex inland. Omaha was bloody - I lost 2 steps on one regiment and a step each on two others - Gold, Juno and Sword were variable - I think I lost a whole tank unit on Sword (eastern most beach?) and I could have gone inland a little but surrounded a fortification which the naval boys hadn't destroyed.

The general picture on D+4 (nb it is my first Overlord scenario!) is that the 82nd and 101st airborne, with troops landed from Utah are ranged north to south along the road between St-Mere-Eglise and Carentan. They're pretty safe.

Then the Omaha troops have ventured as far as the outskirts of Isigny on the western flank and the front line basically runs long the banks of the river that runs from Isigny eastwards to Bayeaux, and from there to Caen, which is full of hard-nosed Jerries. I'm planning to outlank Caen soon, maybe in a day or two once reinforcements allow me that luxury.

I feel relatively accomplished! I'm probably about to suffer an horrendous counter-attack!!!

[pterrok]

Each unit on a naval transport has a little hex with a number in it--for the first two turns it's 3 and then after that it's 4. This is the range in hexes that an enemy step can influence your safe landing.

In BiN the number of dice you roll on landing is based on 3 enemy steps:

0-2 : 0 dice
3-5 : 1 die
6-8 : 2 dice
9-11: 3 dice
12+ 4 dice

Enemy steps are all the individual steps of the forts AND actual unit steps. So if you clear a lot of forts on your landing you can get ashore on Turn 1, but if the Axis moves units up to the beach then you may have worse landing odds than on D-Day! On turn three when the radius is FOUR hexes it can be quite a bit worse if you've lost a lot getting ashore allowing the Axis to be very aggressive.

Good luck in your battle--once you get past the upcoming supply problems it'll be attack, attack, attack every turn as you have more replacements than you can ever use!

[TomH]

so, are you saying that i need to clear all enemy units within 3 hexes to have safe landings in the first 2 turns, and all enemy units within 4 hexes therafter to have safe landings?

to be honest, i don't quite understand the logic here because in reality the D+1 and onwards losses on the landing beaches were minor, almost insignificant.

I presume, and hope someone can confirm, that the losses I have experienced are due to long range arty which I should have silenced and which, in reality, they had silenced shortly after D-Day thereby preventing the loses I am suffering in my game?

[JSS]

Tom,

What losses are you refering to???

If you reduce all the forts & pillboxes along the coast it takes at least two turns and typically mirrors historical timelines/results.

JSS

[Fred98]

It is likely that there was an enemy strongpoint nearby - within 4 hexes - but a newby might miss it easily.

[Adam Parker]

Actually guys any time a units comes ashore it is at risk of attrition losses IIRC. You'll note this usually if the Germans counter-attack through Carentan at Utah.

Tom your sole goal in establishing a beachhead is to make it risk free. So that means clearing any threats around it, preventing an enemy counter-attack allowing closer proximity to your landing zones and and pushing inland offensively yourself. Otherwise, you rightly deserve to be in danager every time you land [;)]

The crux of the crtiticism of Montgomery in failing to take Caen early on was not only that it merely denied the campaign its desired hinge upon which the entire front would eventually wheel but that it also left the British and Canadian beaches within range of enemy fire.

The German possession of Collombelles south-east of Caen alone gave a panoramic view of the entire Juno-Sword landing zones for months, allowing for some devastating opportunity indirect fire.

Look forward to hearing how your flanking of Caen goes [;)] The British called it "Epsom". I'm sure the phrase "bloody" preceded it!

Sounds like your losses on DDay were fairly historical. The 29thID at Omaha was severely mauled, the 3rdID at Sword too, many independent tank btn's at all beaches floundered, I believe 64 arty tubes at Omaha itself sank with their DUKW's. The Norfolks and Sufolks lost hundreds of men taking that strongpoint at Sword you said your armor faced - the Navy having not taken it out. That strongpoint may have been called "Hillman" - it was a key reason for the failure to take Caen that first day. The armor may have been the Staffordshires, totally confused on the attack but responsible for scaring the 21stPzD away from its counter-attack flanking Sword at Hill 61.

Lots of history in this game! [:D]

Adam.

[TomH]

Adam,

Thanks for putting my efforts into their historical context. I keep having to remind myself that the counters represent the guys I read about in Ambrose's book 'D-Day'.

By the way guys, in general is it realistic to try to keep a solid frontline, with no gaps between units? I've done this and find that I have no reserves and I feel awfully exposed. Also, the units I accumulated to lead the flanking movement around Caen are now in the frontline [:(]so the attack is unlikely to happen - I'm about to start turn 12....

The German units take advantage of not having to maintain a sold frontline and keep making very high strength attacks on my thinly spread units in and around Caen. People were saying I'd have more reinforcements than I knew what to do with, but that's not the case!! Gimme more!!![:D]

[alexs]

Hi Tom,
We have an aar (after action report) which outlines a game of Battles In Normandy that Rob had against Roger. It can be found at http://www.ssg.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=827 and i usually find these to be a great source of tactical info.

AlexS
SSG

[Gregor_SSG]

ORIGINAL: TomH

Adam,

Thanks for putting my efforts into their historical context. I keep having to remind myself that the counters represent the guys I read about in Ambrose's book 'D-Day'.

By the way guys, in general is it realistic to try to keep a solid frontline, with no gaps between units? I've done this and find that I have no reserves and I feel awfully exposed. Also, the units I accumulated to lead the flanking movement around Caen are now in the frontline [:(]so the attack is unlikely to happen - I'm about to start turn 12....

The German units take advantage of not having to maintain a sold frontline and keep making very high strength attacks on my thinly spread units in and around Caen. People were saying I'd have more reinforcements than I knew what to do with, but that's not the case!! Gimme more!!![:D]

One good idea is to take the time to have a good look at the German OB, or play a parrallel game as the Germans against the AI. The aim is to get a good working knowledge of the Panzer Divisions you'll be up against. If they are all at Caen giving you a hard time, then you can afford to just lightly screen large bits of your western flank. If the Yanks are doing well you could also get them to extend their flanks to help out the Brits. The computer will be agressive though, so don't take things too far.

Gregor

[TomH]

This learning process is great. I've given up ([8|]) on my last Overlord game and started the Mega 76 turn game. Things were worse on various beaches and I still can't see how anybody expected the troops to move inland after landing seeing as mine all have little or no OPs left?!

Nevertheless, after Turn 2 pretty much all forts etc are destroyed and I feel I'm playing the game more realistically all round.

I decided that I would not try to take Caen immediately and I've pulled back to defensive positions on my side of the Orne. I have an armoured force positioned between Caen and Bayeux and sent some recon units south so I can keep a check on the Panzer movements westwards (up 'till now I didn't know they were doing this).

I've taken Bayeux and have a strong concentrated front in that area. I'm trying to keep divisions together or within 1 hex. So I have areas of concentrated units which seem to attrack the AI's attention. I even have a reserve of Commandos and Armour just to the east of Bayeux.

The Omaha beachhead has moved south and has linked up with the Yanks at Carentan. The 101st had moved quickly south and sat above Carentan until I was able to mount a strong armoured attack with reinforcements from Utah beach. The 82nd meanwhile are holding St Mere-Eglise with the help of various other infantry units.

Incidentally, I lost the supply unit at Utah beach on landing ([:@]) so things were tense until I took Carentan and opened up a supply corridor through to the main landings at Omaha, Gold et al.

Basically, I've got a front from St Mere-Eglise through Carentan, south of Bayeux to Caen. I'm surprised that the Germans have not mounted any concerted attacks, but it is only Turn 8 and the muddy period is about to start.

GREAT GAME[:D]

[jrcrin001]

I was playing BIN - ver. 1.01 – Rommel’s plan – with the AI set at recommended setting for the Allies. The AI sent a landing craft into Cherbourg Harbor and destroyed the supply by getting within one hex. While the allied unit could not land, it still did its dirty work - similar to a raid. Apparently if you do not have a unit on one side of the harbor entrance this can be done?

Has anyone else had this happen to them?

[Fred98]

This is the AI being "gamey"

The solution for the German player is to attack the allied unit - it will be easy meat.

[AnimalAl]

Tom - I had the same experience that you did, down to the "anchor" issue. Not sure how to deal with the threat of nearby Germans, I am thinking that even one turn delay to allow for more ship fire support impacts ability to get Carentan and other important objectives. But watch out for that damn AI, it will sneak in behind your lines every chance it gets.

Playing Germans against computer AI does illustrate winning strategies. I am watching this computer surround and isolate Carantan while pressing on St Lo, and I wonder why can't I push him back? Air interdiction hurts Germans. But I am making the Brits pay in Caen...

[jrcrin001]

I tried to attack the landing craft but the computer will not let me. It is the same attacking landing craft just off the beaches. I can prevent the LC from leaving Cherbourg Harbor, but that is it - stalemate except that the LC did its dirty job very well!