Snigbert-
Great AAR, as always. We do appreciate it. I was curious what your experiences have been with the Japanese subs. In Pacwar, they weren't too effective. Have you found that to be different? I know you mentioned some of them trailing TFs - have you had any engage?
Thanks again, I know you're busy!
In The Driver's Seat - Beta AAR
Moderators: Joel Billings, Tankerace, siRkid
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madflava13
- Posts: 1501
- Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2001 10:00 am
- Location: Alexandria, VA
Greetings, My IJN SS in Pac War always perform in a stellar manner. (one group sank nearly 20 allied AP near Midway in a 3 month period) But you have to micro manage them and if the allies concentrate on ASW aircraft patrols lossess run high (50 subs from Dec 41 to May 43) The trick is to not spread them too thin, base them as close as possible (Wake/Canton/Rabaul) and bring them back for refuel/re-organize every 3 months or so.
place them 4 spaces from the target base (this keeps them out of patrol range of everything but PBY/heavy bomber groups)
Also when you are planning a major fleet operation pull 3-4 groups of subs into the closest base to expected area of operations. Then when your surface/CV TF set sail deploy the subs into the battle area. I have seen them pick off crippled ships after the battle and even a few times torpedo the enemy reaction TF
place them 4 spaces from the target base (this keeps them out of patrol range of everything but PBY/heavy bomber groups)
Also when you are planning a major fleet operation pull 3-4 groups of subs into the closest base to expected area of operations. Then when your surface/CV TF set sail deploy the subs into the battle area. I have seen them pick off crippled ships after the battle and even a few times torpedo the enemy reaction TF
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
MadFlava13: I have found subs to be very useful for spotting enemy TFs, however I think in the 2 months of this campaign I am writing about now I have only had 2 incidents of my subs firing on enemy ships.
I haven't been using wolf pack tactics due to my only having a total of 10 or so subs. So when I only send 1 sub out to try and make contact with the enemy fleets, I'm not surprised that they have trouble finding them. It's a big ocean.
There is an option in the preferences or game options screen to use automated Sub patrols, and another option to use the Historical Japanese sub doctrines (only go after warships, I presume). I am playing with neither of these options on.
I haven't been using wolf pack tactics due to my only having a total of 10 or so subs. So when I only send 1 sub out to try and make contact with the enemy fleets, I'm not surprised that they have trouble finding them. It's a big ocean.
There is an option in the preferences or game options screen to use automated Sub patrols, and another option to use the Historical Japanese sub doctrines (only go after warships, I presume). I am playing with neither of these options on.
"Money doesnt talk, it swears. Obscenities, who really cares?" -Bob Dylan
"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket
"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the
"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket
"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the
Im pleased that the Historical sub option is present.
I have just finished reading "the Japanese Submarine force & world war 2" which really highlights the mismanagement of the submarine arm by Japanese high command.
Which sort of brings me back to a pet beef of mine. Japanese ASW.
Historically the Japs gave no credence to allied sub threat intil it was too late into the war to seriously develop their ASW (both air & sea) capabilty. As i mentioned before in this forum, the allied subs sank more shipping tonnage during the war than carrier/LBA combined.
Having said that their total mismanagement of the resources they did have is amazing.
Is the option present in the game to run Japanese ASW historically or otherwise when the AI is in control of the show?
I have just finished reading "the Japanese Submarine force & world war 2" which really highlights the mismanagement of the submarine arm by Japanese high command.
Which sort of brings me back to a pet beef of mine. Japanese ASW.
Historically the Japs gave no credence to allied sub threat intil it was too late into the war to seriously develop their ASW (both air & sea) capabilty. As i mentioned before in this forum, the allied subs sank more shipping tonnage during the war than carrier/LBA combined.
Having said that their total mismanagement of the resources they did have is amazing.
Is the option present in the game to run Japanese ASW historically or otherwise when the AI is in control of the show?
In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
- Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)
- Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)
Yes, you can select Japanese Sub Doctrine on or off independently, and select which side is AI controlled.
I haven't really studied it or tested it, but I assume if you turn the option off and make the Japanese the Computer player, it would use unhistorical sub tactics for Japan.
I haven't really studied it or tested it, but I assume if you turn the option off and make the Japanese the Computer player, it would use unhistorical sub tactics for Japan.
"Money doesnt talk, it swears. Obscenities, who really cares?" -Bob Dylan
"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket
"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the
"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket
"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the
I'm playing on Historical. Of course having the Battle of Midway not happen is a huge advantage for the Japs
"Money doesnt talk, it swears. Obscenities, who really cares?" -Bob Dylan
"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket
"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the
"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket
"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the
We are ALL anxious to play it.......
You ought to be, it rocks. Initially I thought UV would just be an ok game to tide me over until War in the Pacific comes out. But the more I play of it, the more I appreciate what a nice game they have in UV.
When you think about it, with a couple of notable exceptions, all of the exciting carrier battles happened in this theatre/time frame. Events which took place after 1943 were basically just the last nails being hammered into Japan's casket by America's insurmountable industrial capability. The see-saw fighting took place in the Solomons/New Guinea area.
You ought to be, it rocks. Initially I thought UV would just be an ok game to tide me over until War in the Pacific comes out. But the more I play of it, the more I appreciate what a nice game they have in UV.
When you think about it, with a couple of notable exceptions, all of the exciting carrier battles happened in this theatre/time frame. Events which took place after 1943 were basically just the last nails being hammered into Japan's casket by America's insurmountable industrial capability. The see-saw fighting took place in the Solomons/New Guinea area.
"Money doesnt talk, it swears. Obscenities, who really cares?" -Bob Dylan
"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket
"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the
"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket
"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the
Snigbert:
I noticed that you have the Kaga and Akagi coming your way - presumably at the end of May. What is the presumption regarding Midway? Does the manual or the scenario expressly state any presumptions? You said you are playing the historical scenario; are there other scenarios that take the Midway battle into account?
I noticed that you have the Kaga and Akagi coming your way - presumably at the end of May. What is the presumption regarding Midway? Does the manual or the scenario expressly state any presumptions? You said you are playing the historical scenario; are there other scenarios that take the Midway battle into account?
There are historical scenarios and hypothetical ones. The one I am playing is hypothetical and assumes the battle did not happen. If I said it was historical, my mistake.
You can read the scenario descriptions and it will tell you whether the Midway event happens in that scenario or not.
You can read the scenario descriptions and it will tell you whether the Midway event happens in that scenario or not.
"Money doesnt talk, it swears. Obscenities, who really cares?" -Bob Dylan
"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket
"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the
"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket
"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the
They've been keeping me busy beta testing, and with the patch updates I think I have kind of lost a handle on the game I was describing. I started another campaign, June 42-Dec 43 with historical OOBs, as the Japanese. I could write that one up if you guys are interested.
Things are going pretty badly for me this time.
Things are going pretty badly for me this time.
"Money doesnt talk, it swears. Obscenities, who really cares?" -Bob Dylan
"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket
"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the
"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket
"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the
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Adnan Meshuggi
- Posts: 532
- Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 8:00 am
Yes, wanna have it.... it is the only thing we low creatures can consume, so pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase feed us....Originally posted by Snigbert:
They've been keeping me busy beta testing, and with the patch updates I think I have kind of lost a handle on the game I was describing. I started another campaign, June 42-Dec 43 with historical OOBs, as the Japanese. I could write that one up if you guys are interested.
Things are going pretty badly for me this time.
Don't tickle yourself with some moralist crap thinking we have some sort of obligation to help these people. We're there for our self-interest, and anything we do to be 'nice' should be considered a courtesy dweebespit
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Lex Morton
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: Scotland
June 7th, 1942
From: Commander, South Seas Fleet/8th Area Army
To: Commander, Combined Fleet (Home)
Subject: Situation Report, week of June 1st-June 7th 1942
Our operation progressed perfectly this week, following the plan to reduce enemy forces in Eastern New Guinea and Solomons Island group.
We feel the amount of naval support we have received thus far is inadequate to maintain momentum in this theatre. It is understood that the damage the Shokaku and Zuikaku took last month has reduced our available carrier force, but hopefully following the top secret operation our fleet is currently engaged in, other carriers may be made available to us. We are in a critical stage of our operation and have no carriers available. If American carriers appear in this area all we have to fight them is a handful of heavy cruisers and destroyers.
We spent most of last week planning and carrying out invasions of our first four objectives, Buna and Gili Gili on New Guinea, and Tulagi and Lunga in the Eastern Solomons. Efforts were also made to bring air support to forward bases including Rabaul and Shortland. Hopefully by this time next week all of these locations will be in friendly hands. Recon has shown all of these enemy bases to be lightly defended or undefended.
June 14th, 1942
From: Commander, South Seas Fleet/8th Area Army
To: Commander, Combined Fleet (Home)
Subject: Situation Report, week of June 8th-June 14th 1942
Great news, our forces have achieved a fantastic victory at Midway and sank the American carrier Yorktown.
We are grateful for the news of continuing victories, as well as our new information that the carriers Junyo, Zuiho and Ryujo will be dispatched to our command along with many cruisers, destroyers and four battleships. With these mighty ships arrayed against the enemy they will surely be swept from the seas.
In other good news, all four bases we had set to capture our now in our hands. We move forward to phase two of our operation, the isolation and eventual capture of Port Moresby. Unfortunately, this may be a more difficult nut to crack.
Ground reinforcements began arriving at Truk this week to fall under our command, and will be sent to New Guinea via Rabaul. Two cruiser task forces are created, the first to patrol the Eastern Solomons and the Second to interdict shipping between Australia and Port Moresby. This interdiction, along with continued pressure on Port Moresby from our aircraft at Rabaul will soften them up for our amphibious invasion. It may take a few weeks to get the forces in line for this invasion, in the meantime we have beefed up ground defenses at Guadalcanal, Tulagi, Buin, Buka, Buna and Gili Gili.
We also welcomed the arrival of several seaplane tenders at Truk, which we will move into position in the Solomons. Their scout planes will be our eyes and ears, monitoring traffic between Australia and the New Hebrides.
June 21st, 1942
From: Commander, South Seas Fleet/8th Area Army
To: Commander, Combined Fleet (Home)
Subject: Situation Report, week of June 15th-June 21st 1942
Our seaplanes spotted trouble last week, an American carrier task force steaming from Espiritu Santo towards New Guinea. They wish to draw us out into a carrier battle, but unfortunately our carriers are just arriving at Truk and most likely wont make it in time to intercept them. Our planes have indicated only one Carrier there, we suspect it is the Saratoga.
This American carrier task force launches several air strikes on our forces at Gili Gili. We also spot American Task Forces milling around Espiritu Santo. Could they be planning to retake Gili Gili? Unfortunately for them, the Saratoga and her escorts wasted too much time on Gili Gili, and our carriers arrive to give them battle.
It didn't turn out to be our finest hour. The American planes attacked us piecemeal, probably due to their unexperienced pilots. First came the Fighters and Dive Bombers, then later the staggered arrival of Torpedo bombers with no fighter support. Many of the enemy planes were destroyed by our superior A6M2 and A6M3 fighters, but one of the enemy dive bombers that managed to get through hit the Zuiho with a 1000lb bomb, which punched through the flight deck and blew up in the ship's magazine.
Our counterattack against the Saratoga was much more coordinated and I was quite sure of success. She took two hits from 250kg bombs, and a torpedo, but as our planes withdrew she showed no signs of serious damage, not even smoke. We hoped that the ship was damaged more severly then it appeared.
Our task force made it back to Rabaul, however the Zuiho dropped behind with a destroyer, and was only making 11 knots. We were grateful she stayed afloat after the hit she had taken.
To our amazement, the American carrier continued its operations in the area, and withdrew a few days later as their cowardly nature eventually got the better of them.
On the heels of this difficult situation we received good news, the Zuikaku had been dispatched and would be arriving at Truk in just over a week. We have to admit our surpise that the Shokaku remained in Japan, and Carrier Division Six was split up.
Perhaps the carriers from Midway will be back in Japan soon as well, and then dispatched to join us. We have heard no news of them since their victory against the Yorktown.
To be continued
From: Commander, South Seas Fleet/8th Area Army
To: Commander, Combined Fleet (Home)
Subject: Situation Report, week of June 1st-June 7th 1942
Our operation progressed perfectly this week, following the plan to reduce enemy forces in Eastern New Guinea and Solomons Island group.
We feel the amount of naval support we have received thus far is inadequate to maintain momentum in this theatre. It is understood that the damage the Shokaku and Zuikaku took last month has reduced our available carrier force, but hopefully following the top secret operation our fleet is currently engaged in, other carriers may be made available to us. We are in a critical stage of our operation and have no carriers available. If American carriers appear in this area all we have to fight them is a handful of heavy cruisers and destroyers.
We spent most of last week planning and carrying out invasions of our first four objectives, Buna and Gili Gili on New Guinea, and Tulagi and Lunga in the Eastern Solomons. Efforts were also made to bring air support to forward bases including Rabaul and Shortland. Hopefully by this time next week all of these locations will be in friendly hands. Recon has shown all of these enemy bases to be lightly defended or undefended.
June 14th, 1942
From: Commander, South Seas Fleet/8th Area Army
To: Commander, Combined Fleet (Home)
Subject: Situation Report, week of June 8th-June 14th 1942
Great news, our forces have achieved a fantastic victory at Midway and sank the American carrier Yorktown.
We are grateful for the news of continuing victories, as well as our new information that the carriers Junyo, Zuiho and Ryujo will be dispatched to our command along with many cruisers, destroyers and four battleships. With these mighty ships arrayed against the enemy they will surely be swept from the seas.
In other good news, all four bases we had set to capture our now in our hands. We move forward to phase two of our operation, the isolation and eventual capture of Port Moresby. Unfortunately, this may be a more difficult nut to crack.
Ground reinforcements began arriving at Truk this week to fall under our command, and will be sent to New Guinea via Rabaul. Two cruiser task forces are created, the first to patrol the Eastern Solomons and the Second to interdict shipping between Australia and Port Moresby. This interdiction, along with continued pressure on Port Moresby from our aircraft at Rabaul will soften them up for our amphibious invasion. It may take a few weeks to get the forces in line for this invasion, in the meantime we have beefed up ground defenses at Guadalcanal, Tulagi, Buin, Buka, Buna and Gili Gili.
We also welcomed the arrival of several seaplane tenders at Truk, which we will move into position in the Solomons. Their scout planes will be our eyes and ears, monitoring traffic between Australia and the New Hebrides.
June 21st, 1942
From: Commander, South Seas Fleet/8th Area Army
To: Commander, Combined Fleet (Home)
Subject: Situation Report, week of June 15th-June 21st 1942
Our seaplanes spotted trouble last week, an American carrier task force steaming from Espiritu Santo towards New Guinea. They wish to draw us out into a carrier battle, but unfortunately our carriers are just arriving at Truk and most likely wont make it in time to intercept them. Our planes have indicated only one Carrier there, we suspect it is the Saratoga.
This American carrier task force launches several air strikes on our forces at Gili Gili. We also spot American Task Forces milling around Espiritu Santo. Could they be planning to retake Gili Gili? Unfortunately for them, the Saratoga and her escorts wasted too much time on Gili Gili, and our carriers arrive to give them battle.
It didn't turn out to be our finest hour. The American planes attacked us piecemeal, probably due to their unexperienced pilots. First came the Fighters and Dive Bombers, then later the staggered arrival of Torpedo bombers with no fighter support. Many of the enemy planes were destroyed by our superior A6M2 and A6M3 fighters, but one of the enemy dive bombers that managed to get through hit the Zuiho with a 1000lb bomb, which punched through the flight deck and blew up in the ship's magazine.
Our counterattack against the Saratoga was much more coordinated and I was quite sure of success. She took two hits from 250kg bombs, and a torpedo, but as our planes withdrew she showed no signs of serious damage, not even smoke. We hoped that the ship was damaged more severly then it appeared.
Our task force made it back to Rabaul, however the Zuiho dropped behind with a destroyer, and was only making 11 knots. We were grateful she stayed afloat after the hit she had taken.
To our amazement, the American carrier continued its operations in the area, and withdrew a few days later as their cowardly nature eventually got the better of them.
On the heels of this difficult situation we received good news, the Zuikaku had been dispatched and would be arriving at Truk in just over a week. We have to admit our surpise that the Shokaku remained in Japan, and Carrier Division Six was split up.
Perhaps the carriers from Midway will be back in Japan soon as well, and then dispatched to join us. We have heard no news of them since their victory against the Yorktown.
To be continued
"Money doesnt talk, it swears. Obscenities, who really cares?" -Bob Dylan
"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket
"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the
"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket
"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the
Is it possible in UV for things to go bad when playing against AI? I dont remember ever loosing in pacwar. AI in that game simply cant handle a fight against a human opponent. Does UVs AI provide any challenge?Originally posted by Snigbert:
They've been keeping me busy beta testing, and with the patch updates I think I have kind of lost a handle on the game I was describing. I started another campaign, June 42-Dec 43 with historical OOBs, as the Japanese. I could write that one up if you guys are interested.
Things are going pretty badly for me this time.