Japanese grand strategy

[Hornblower]

Moses-
Personally I haven't had a Japan vrs Soviet combat in my games, so i don't know this. Should the IJA wipe the floor with the Soviets (for all the reasons mentioned) how long does it take for the Soviets to build up there strength? Of is it something along the lines of if the IJA holds hex x,y,z no soviet replacements/reinenforcements can enter the board?

[mogami]

Hi, The Soviet build up in 1945 prior to their offensive against the Japanese had 300-500 trains per day running. The Trans-Siberia RR is a double track.

I don't think the Japanese could do this but they were rather good railroad people I think in 1941 Manchuria 50-100 trains per day could run. The RR handled a large amount of resource/supply traffic to begin with.

[moses]

OK it doesn't matter. It wasn't the main point of my post, but there's no comparison between moving a 2 Divisions of confederate infantry and 5 JP Divisions. The more modern army has many more different items to move.

With the rebs you pretty much throw everything into the railcar and say go. I guess the horses require special care.

A more modern division has tons of items that cannot be shipped in troop cars. They go seperately and are married up at the destination. Horses, trucks, artillery pieces, and all manner of logistical equipment all have to be offloaded in addition to the infantry. Its a very large logistical nightmare. Plus what is the capability of the railhead at the destination. Not everything can get there at once and just mannaging the traffic at the railhead can be a nightmare.

Then you have to get them to the front line and this is not something that happens in a day or two either. Its a lot of work getting the troops where they need to be with the equipment they need.

Anyway my main point was that its unfair that Japan can pull of this astonishing logistical feat and all russia can do is sit and watch until the Japanese march into the hex and slaughter them.

[mogami]

Hi, I'll send you the files on my mod as soon as they are ready. I'm doing just a partial map version for testing so you don't have to worry about the rest of the war. Just China and Soviets.
Send me email so I have your address. If you wish we can PBEM it. You can be the naughty Japanese.
The SAA units are all availabe to use.

MNeer1@woh.rr.com

[moses]

At present if Russia is defeated they are not coming back. (At least as far as I have seen) I suspect that this is accurate given that you accept that Irustuk(sp?)(The main soviet supply sourse at the end of the rail line.) could actually be taken by Japan. I mean once Japan owns the railhead deep in Siberia a counterattack is going to be kinda difficult. At least there should be a requirement for a few Japanese divisions to watch the rail line.

The problem is its kind of hard to imagine the Japanese actually getting to Irustuk IRL. I mean its one thing to think that Japan might win some battles against Russia but very difficult to see the russian force getting annihilated as is possible in the game.

[moses]

Hi, I'll send you the files on my mod as soon as they are ready. I'm doing just a partial map version for testing so you don't have to worry about the rest of the war. Just China and Soviets.
Send me email so I have your address. If you wish we can PBEM it. You can be the naughty Japanese.

?????? As I understand your mod you are upgunning both the Chinese and Russian forces. (i.e. you are changing it in accordance to your best opinion of the historical reality). Therefore my view of the mod is that Japan will be uterly crushed and that China will be on the offensive by April.

Therefore I really have no interest in playing Japan.[>:]

I would be very happy to play as China. [:D][:D][:D]

I mean if I play as China and cannot make any progress then I guess all of my arguments are proven false.

Would also love yo have the mod just to check it out. I'll send e-mail seperately.

[WiTP_Dude]

I don't think you will advancing until 1943. It will take time to stockpile a lot of supply and rebuild your strength.

[moses]

I don't think you will advancing until 1943. It will take time to stockpile a lot of supply and rebuild your strength.

Yeah OK. We'll see when we know the details. My argument all along has been that changing the OOB unbalances the game in favor of the Chinese more than is desirable. i.e. Japan will be stopped cold at the start and that very soon China will be attacking. It therefore doesn't make sence for me to play Japan. I already think I'm lost.

The true battle of ideas is for me to play as China. Then we will see if the mod produces the desired stable theater or if it produces a Chinese monster.

Of course when I get the mod my view may change. I don't know for sure what all the changes are.

Edit: Before I get accused of being an axis fanboy again, I agree that things need to be more difficult for Japan. I simply have a difference of opinion as to how to achieve that goal.

[mogami]

Hi, I will be the mean old Japanese. Should I play historic or exploitive? (By historic I mean not move units between fronts without paying PP)

[WiTP_Dude]

I read that you moved several SAA units into China in one game. Did you pay PP?

[WiTP_Dude]

The problem for the Chinese is they have very little engineers. It will be almost impossible for them to take down fortifications. Plus their supply situation will be very poor. It will be a big challenge for them to advance. The Japanese have quite a lot of units to put up a good defense.

[moses]

Cool.

If its Russia and China you can move things between theaters. You really can't move all that much anyway without activating the Russian.

Really interested in the details of the scenario. Air units allocated to each theater? Burma road gets closed when?

Can't wait. When do you expect mod completion?

[mogami]

ORIGINAL: WiTP_Dude

I read that you moved several SAA units into China in one game. Did you pay PP?

Hi, No.....[:-] But they operated under SAA control. (I also moved their HQ and SAA moved to Canton.) They deployed to China in response to Chinese offensive that threatend SAA bases. If Chinese captured Canton and Hong Kong Chinese air units would reach SAA supply lines.

[WiTP_Dude]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, No.....[:-] But they operated under SAA control. (I also moved their HQ and SAA moved to Canton.) They deployed to China in response to Chinese offensive that threatend SAA bases. If Chinese captured Canton and Hong Kong Chinese air units would reach SAA supply lines.

So you will allow Kwantung to send units without PP if the Chinese begin to attack and overrun bases in China? This seems reasonable.

[mogami]

Hi, If the Chinese are attacking the Manchurians the Japanese Chinese Army will move to stop it.
In this case it was the Chinese attacking SAA bases. (SAA units were involved in the fighting before I moved any extra there.
38th Div Hong Kong 21st Div Hanoi Units sent on turn 1 to Pakhoi etc.

I did not move SAA units to China to conquer China. I moved them in response to a Chinese offensive. I don't think I had done anything in China prior to the Chinese moving forward.

All SAA units left China as soon as the front was stablized.

Not a single unit moved from Manchuria

No Japanese unit has moved west of the RR except to cut off Chinese on the RR and they returned to the RR after that. I do not intend on ever going West of the RR.

[moses]

As Japan you have to have something to defend the area around Canton and the small isolated bases west of there. If China tries to attack these bases then SAA units have to respond. I intend no early attack against those isolated bases.

I would hope that the situation there is cleared up a bit. Its strange that Japan would have a single Brigade sitting all alone in the presance of numerous Chinese Corps. Either the Chinese units there should be placed where they cannot immediately attack or Japan should have a couple SAA units there to prevent any foolishness.

[mogami]

Hi, In the Mod I moved all the Chinese back to bases. There are no Chinese units anywhere outside a Chinese base unless they are next to a Chinese base.

[moses]

So you will allow Kwantung to send units without PP if the Chinese begin to attack and overrun bases in China? This seems reasonable.

I don't know why this is such an issue. Maybe I do not understand something.

Japan has to keep enough units in Russia to prevent activation. So it is really only possible for Japan to transfer a division or two to China for the first 3 or 4 months.

I guess the concern is for later in the game. Does the soviet activation requirement go up at any point. Maybe it should increase a little as the game goes on so that it prevents russia from sending all of its rienforcements to other theaters. Then PP's are not an issue.

[mogami]

Hi, I know I am just an old stick in the mud but really.
If players would just forget about attacking the Soviets
Use PP to move units from Manchuria and China
Forget about trying to get easy VP from China (and VP bought with infantry rather then ships and ac are easy)
There would not be a problem

I'm splitting hairs I know but attacking China to improve your position is fine. Attacking China because you can wipe it out is bogus.
It was a seriuos error to make the OB where it was possible.

Since there is no possible response by Soviets I think the 1941 deployment of Soviets should just be as strong as the 1945 Soviet attack. They can't start the war. Japan has to.
A stronger OB to start with would reflect that a Japanese build up could not happen in the dark. The Soviets would have countered.
Just add 20 more Soviet infantry Divisions and 5 more Tank/Mech Div and be done with it.

It would restore both the intent of the design and what Japan would encounter if they tried to attack.
In China I'm now considering making rather large baseforce units for each city. Placing 1 static CD gun in them will prevent them from advancing. I'm sure the Chinese had enough guns of this type and if they didn't so what? They are emplaced guns. The size would be based on the size of the city.

[moses]

I'm confused. I said nothing about attacking the russians.

Edit: Oh OK that was a way back. The issue with the russians was brought up when Hirohito made his plan and everyone including myself said it was nuts. I tried it in order to prove that it was nuts and won easily. This indicated to me some problems with the combat system. I raise the issue from time to time in order to illustrate those problems that I believe exist.

Other people raise the issue of russia from time to time as well and I respond because I have some knowledge of the theater from these tests.

Personnally I would never attack russia in a PBEM. I would however like to see combat system fixes to correct the problems there as the problems do apply to other theaters as well.