Das Reich Campiagn Posted!

[M4Jess]

THE CAMPAIGN


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[Bernie]

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[Raccoon_TOF]

Very nice campaign so far, though I think that scenario 3 (I think that's the right one, I forget the name, but where you defend the town after the "mushroom gathering" recon unit storyline bit...) is a bit out of balance...

The support forces pre-placed on the map basically exactly doubled my current force strength. (I started with the recommended core units of an SS Rifle company and a PzKpFw-35(t) platoon (5), plus two recon patrol teams (3 squads each) and a Stoewer 40, then replaced one recon patrol team with 3 PzKpFw-IVc's after the first scenario since I had only about 40 or so points of repair to do besides the complete loss of one of the recon teams...so I wasn't carrying over personnel anyway, thus unit type made no difference...I had also replaced my 50mm mortars with 81mm's in the next scenario IIRC.) With the combination of the support artillery having extensive ammunition loads, the massive suppressive capability of 75mm FH Batteries (large spread per barrage...), and the sheer outnumbering of the attacking forces by my defensive units (in buildings, forest, or hull-down on the hill) at any given choke point, I ended up with my only complete unit loss (ie: not counting individual infantrymen casualties if the squad survived) being a single PzKpFw-IVc (crew survived) that took a lucky hit from a Polish ATR that had a 7% success chance to hit...and the Poles never made it past the treeline on the way to the hill, nor had a single unit survive my turn closer than 6 tiles from any building in the village (barring the stone wall...there I just kept killing the engineer units so they had to funnel around it into my defensive chokes, rather than breaching it and assaulting from a massed combined front...).

I think that the scenario needs one (or more) of the following:

- Less support units placed on the map to force more decisions when placing starting forces...

- Less support artillery or drastic reduction in support artillery ammunition

- More Polish troops, especially in larger waves at once, but not as easily clustered for artillery fire...

- Longer scenario length to force eventual attrition of forces and ammo depletion causing gaps in defenses forcing reshuffling of units to respond (probably best used with the above recommendation of more Polish troops so that it actually HAS to keep going...by the end I had killed almost all of the existing forces anyway, barring those that actually managed to retreat safely...I think I only had a single cavalry platoon and 2 infantry squads pestering the hill and none left anywhere around the village when the Polish force morale finally broke the turn before the scenario time limit...)

- Greatly increased morale and rally statistics for the Polish forces so that they can not be as easily suppressed and destroyed/routed.

Honestly my biggest slowdown in "kill speed" of the attacking troops was towards the end when the heavy clouds of smoke covering most of the map from my artillery caused me to spend many turns tracking down the few survivors from attacking force "waves"...

That said, the rest of the scenarios so far have been quite nice. I am not very far in yet, currently on the fort assault scenario, and at least in theory it appears to be a fairly simple process (doing well so far, using artillery purely for smoke currently, even my 50mm mortars are designated target locations for smoke coverage with HE rounds rather than kill/suppression chances). I've got both of my forces maneuvered to the rear of the respective forts currently, overwatch and fire lanes set up by my recon and MG units, and have got the bunkers covered and most of the fort areas blanketed in smoke...about ready to begin a rear assault on the forts themselves. The only question I see is whether I will be able to complete it in the time limit, as it took quite a while bringing my core force around to the rear of the smaller fort through the forest and smoke cover...but I managed it without even being spotted once on the way, much less taking any enemy fire. I'll see how the assault itself goes tomorrow...

My current core force consists of the following -

GE HQ
SS Rifle Company with these changes:
- 50mm mortars exchanged with 81mm mortars
- ATR section replaced with Spec Ops Platoon (for 6 Spec Ops squads total)
Panzer Platoon (5) consisting of:
- 1 x PzKpFw-IIIe
- 4 x PzKpFw-35(t)
2 Sections (3) of PzKpFw-IVc Support Panzers (replaced my initial Recon Patrol teams)
1 FO (replaced the original Stoewer 40)

Currently my Spec Ops forces ride the PzKpFw-IVc's until contact with the enemy and in advance of the main forces, then dismount and perform "reconnaisance in force", while the HQ and the 81mm mortars ride the IIIe and 35(t)s to my staging area if needed (they are quite slow otherwise...).

[KNomad]

ORIGINAL: Raccoon_TOF

2 Sections (3) of PzKpFw-IVc Support Panzers (replaced my initial Recon Patrol teams)
1 FO (replaced the original Stoewer 40)

I'm always leary of upgrading from one unit type to another.
Check the Armor ratings on your PzKwIV's, and the Artillery rating on your FO.

I'll bet they're quite low. [X(]

[Goblin]

ORIGINAL: Raccoon_TOF

Very nice campaign so far, though I think that scenario 3 (I think that's the right one, I forget the name, but where you defend the town after the "mushroom gathering" recon unit storyline bit...) is a bit out of balance...

The support forces pre-placed on the map basically exactly doubled my current force strength. (I started with the recommended core units of an SS Rifle company and a PzKpFw-35(t) platoon (5), plus two recon patrol teams (3 squads each) and a Stoewer 40, then replaced one recon patrol team with 3 PzKpFw-IVc's after the first scenario since I had only about 40 or so points of repair to do besides the complete loss of one of the recon teams...so I wasn't carrying over personnel anyway, thus unit type made no difference...I had also replaced my 50mm mortars with 81mm's in the next scenario IIRC.) With the combination of the support artillery having extensive ammunition loads, the massive suppressive capability of 75mm FH Batteries (large spread per barrage...), and the sheer outnumbering of the attacking forces by my defensive units (in buildings, forest, or hull-down on the hill) at any given choke point, I ended up with my only complete unit loss (ie: not counting individual infantrymen casualties if the squad survived) being a single PzKpFw-IVc (crew survived) that took a lucky hit from a Polish ATR that had a 7% success chance to hit...and the Poles never made it past the treeline on the way to the hill, nor had a single unit survive my turn closer than 6 tiles from any building in the village (barring the stone wall...there I just kept killing the engineer units so they had to funnel around it into my defensive chokes, rather than breaching it and assaulting from a massed combined front...).

I think that the scenario needs one (or more) of the following:

- Less support units placed on the map to force more decisions when placing starting forces...

- Less support artillery or drastic reduction in support artillery ammunition

- More Polish troops, especially in larger waves at once, but not as easily clustered for artillery fire...

- Longer scenario length to force eventual attrition of forces and ammo depletion causing gaps in defenses forcing reshuffling of units to respond (probably best used with the above recommendation of more Polish troops so that it actually HAS to keep going...by the end I had killed almost all of the existing forces anyway, barring those that actually managed to retreat safely...I think I only had a single cavalry platoon and 2 infantry squads pestering the hill and none left anywhere around the village when the Polish force morale finally broke the turn before the scenario time limit...)

- Greatly increased morale and rally statistics for the Polish forces so that they can not be as easily suppressed and destroyed/routed.

Honestly my biggest slowdown in "kill speed" of the attacking troops was towards the end when the heavy clouds of smoke covering most of the map from my artillery caused me to spend many turns tracking down the few survivors from attacking force "waves"...

That said, the rest of the scenarios so far have been quite nice. I am not very far in yet, currently on the fort assault scenario, and at least in theory it appears to be a fairly simple process (doing well so far, using artillery purely for smoke currently, even my 50mm mortars are designated target locations for smoke coverage with HE rounds rather than kill/suppression chances). I've got both of my forces maneuvered to the rear of the respective forts currently, overwatch and fire lanes set up by my recon and MG units, and have got the bunkers covered and most of the fort areas blanketed in smoke...about ready to begin a rear assault on the forts themselves. The only question I see is whether I will be able to complete it in the time limit, as it took quite a while bringing my core force around to the rear of the smaller fort through the forest and smoke cover...but I managed it without even being spotted once on the way, much less taking any enemy fire. I'll see how the assault itself goes tomorrow...

My current core force consists of the following -

GE HQ
SS Rifle Company with these changes:
- 50mm mortars exchanged with 81mm mortars
- ATR section replaced with Spec Ops Platoon (for 6 Spec Ops squads total)
Panzer Platoon (5) consisting of:
- 1 x PzKpFw-IIIe
- 4 x PzKpFw-35(t)
2 Sections (3) of PzKpFw-IVc Support Panzers (replaced my initial Recon Patrol teams)
1 FO (replaced the original Stoewer 40)

Currently my Spec Ops forces ride the PzKpFw-IVc's until contact with the enemy and in advance of the main forces, then dismount and perform "reconnaisance in force", while the HQ and the 81mm mortars ride the IIIe and 35(t)s to my staging area if needed (they are quite slow otherwise...).

Raccoon,

Sorry for the late reply on this, I've been away.

Butchery at Sunset was my scenario. I actually tried to reflect what two full strength SS Rifle companies with tank and artillery support could do when they were not expected by an attacker. I also do not believe every scenario has to be a hairpulling, Tums-chewing, hard-ass battle. Some are just for the plain fun of it, and that is what I designed this one around. Although most found this one easy, I do hope that most found it fun. There is no reason why the player cannot sometimes have the superior side in a battle, IMO.

I have thought about shortening it somewhat, or fixing it to allow the Poles to end the scenario early if they are taking a huge beating (which is likely). I will look into it. Thanks for the input!

Hope everyone is enjoying this campaign!


Goblin

[KG Erwin]

Thanks for the reply, Goblin. Don't be a stranger. Good to hear from you. [:)]

[Goblin]

Thanks. I had some serious RL stuff going on, and still do to some extent, but at least I am back posting again, if not designing right now.


Goblin

[Raccoon_TOF]

ORIGINAL: Goblin

Butchery at Sunset was my scenario. I actually tried to reflect what two full strength SS Rifle companies with tank and artillery support could do when they were not expected by an attacker. I also do not believe every scenario has to be a hairpulling, Tums-chewing, hard-ass battle. Some are just for the plain fun of it, and that is what I designed this one around. Although most found this one easy, I do hope that most found it fun. There is no reason why the player cannot sometimes have the superior side in a battle, IMO.

I have thought about shortening it somewhat, or fixing it to allow the Poles to end the scenario early if they are taking a huge beating (which is likely). I will look into it. Thanks for the input!

Hope everyone is enjoying this campaign!


Goblin

I definitely agree that not every scenario has to be difficult...it's the "fun" aspect that I was worried about. Easy by using proper tactics, etc, no problem. But when the only thing I had to do was position my forces correctly when I deployed them, and then keep blanketing the attackers with artillery every turn and finishing off the few that managed to push through the kill zone anyway, it just got boring...I actually stopped using the artillery for the last 4-5 turns of the scenario just so I would see more of a challenge...

However, your suggestion to shorten it or allow the Poles to withdraw (the better of the two options IMO) I think would also work to make it "fun" without ruining the goal of showing what the SS was capable of...I was just looking for a way to make it more challenging...

[Raccoon_TOF]

ORIGINAL: KNomad
I'm always leary of upgrading from one unit type to another.
Check the Armor ratings on your PzKwIV's, and the Artillery rating on your FO.

I'll bet they're quite low. [X(]

I waited to replace them with different types until they were completely eliminated (including crew of the command vehicle). As far as I can tell, if a unit is completely eliminated, it doesn't carry over any experience anyway, but gets replaced by a completely fresh unit with default skills when you "fix" it. And I did check the Armor rating on the panzers, they started with standard default armor ranges for the time period (69-78 IIRC, same as my original platoon started with).
The recon units were only bought in the first place as placeholders for eventual replacement with CS panzers anyway, I intended to use the special ops teams as my recon units, so I didn't worry about them getting killed early (coldhearted as it may be, they were effectively formation placeholders because there is no way to add completely new formations/units to an existing formation during the campaign). And the FO was actually an afterthought as a "just in case" I get assigned offboard arty in a scenario without also being assigned an FO so I could get the reduced ETA if needed (hasn't happened yet though - but my FO still has an arty rating in the 70's anyway, oftentimes higher than the preplaced FO's in the scenario). Since I was carrying the HQ along with the 81mm mortars on the panzer platoon till they got to the staging area, I never ended up needing the command vehicle anyway.

EDIT: Just went and got the actual numbers for comparison. Also have Exp/Morale/Kills along with the other 4 ratings.

- PzKpFw-IVc Sections -
Unit / Experience / Morale / Rally / Inf / Art / Arm / Kills

J0 / 66 / 83 / 69 / 47 / 49 / 75 / 3
J1 / 86 / 99 / 77 / 43 / 41 / 72 / 14
J2 / 81 / 55 / 66 / 39 / 45 / 79 / 2

K0 / 58 / 81 / 68 / 40 / 51 / 83 / 0
K1 / 63 / 86 / 65 / 51 / 45 / 78 / 0
K2 / 55 / 77 / 75 / 73 / 44 / 44 / 0

- Compare to my original Panzer platoon -
Unit / Experience / Morale / Rally / Inf / Art / Arm / Kills

I0 / 85 / 96 / 71 / 39 / 45 / 78 / 19
I1 / 95 / 99 / 71 / 40 / 43 / 81 / 16
I2 / 79 / 99 / 67 / 39 / 36 / 73 / 2
I3 / 87 / 98 / 76 / 50 / 43 / 77 / 8
I4 / 85 / 94 / 75 / 44 / 52 / 76 / 7

- And the FO(s) -
Unit / Experience / Morale / Rally / Inf / Art / Arm / Kills
L0 / 67 / 90 / 67 / 37 / 73 / 43 / 0
AR1 / 69 / 81 / 67 / 39 / 66 / 36 / 0

Note that AR1 is an Auxillary FO placed in the scenario...I've been using these two FO's primarily in this scenario, due to positioning (1 at each fort).

One thing that really surprised me was noticing the 83 armor rating on my brand new fresh PzKpFw-IVc section leader (K0). He was just bought at the start of this scenario, hasn't gained any experience yet at all, and yet has the best armor rating of ANY of my panzer units...also, you can see from the ratings that I didn't wait for the K2 scout platoon to get eliminated before replacing it...it still has its old infantry ratings. But I wanted to replace them all as a set since I finally had the second platoon of Special Ops purchased (replacing the ATRs), and needed all 3 panzers for fast deployment. Besides...his section leader can make up for him...

[Goblin]

ORIGINAL: Raccoon_TOF

ORIGINAL: Goblin

Butchery at Sunset was my scenario. I actually tried to reflect what two full strength SS Rifle companies with tank and artillery support could do when they were not expected by an attacker. I also do not believe every scenario has to be a hairpulling, Tums-chewing, hard-ass battle. Some are just for the plain fun of it, and that is what I designed this one around. Although most found this one easy, I do hope that most found it fun. There is no reason why the player cannot sometimes have the superior side in a battle, IMO.

I have thought about shortening it somewhat, or fixing it to allow the Poles to end the scenario early if they are taking a huge beating (which is likely). I will look into it. Thanks for the input!

Hope everyone is enjoying this campaign!


Goblin

I definitely agree that not every scenario has to be difficult...it's the "fun" aspect that I was worried about. Easy by using proper tactics, etc, no problem. But when the only thing I had to do was position my forces correctly when I deployed them, and then keep blanketing the attackers with artillery every turn and finishing off the few that managed to push through the kill zone anyway, it just got boring...I actually stopped using the artillery for the last 4-5 turns of the scenario just so I would see more of a challenge...

However, your suggestion to shorten it or allow the Poles to withdraw (the better of the two options IMO) I think would also work to make it "fun" without ruining the goal of showing what the SS was capable of...I was just looking for a way to make it more challenging...

Hmmm. I'm gonna tinker with it some, and see how it plays. Maybe we can release a slightly modified version in a patch. Thanks for the input, Raccoon! Every little bit of feedback the Team gets about this campaign will make it better, and most assuredly help out on future Depot Camapigns.


Goblin

[Raccoon_TOF]

I think the biggest problem is the artillery. Especially the 75mm batteries. They hardly get any kills, but they blanket a huge area with suppressive fire. I think if you want to keep it weighted towards the players' advantage, but still require more work than just constantly adjusting arty barrages each turn, the best option might be to do a combination of lowering the ammo of the 75mm batteries (or reducing them to sections instead of full batteries) and allowing the Poles to end the assault early if they are still getting continually hammered.

Another couple of possibilities came to mind when I replayed it today to see if I just got lucky the first time (nope, same results the second time too...)..."smarter" tactics on the side of the Poles might help considerably. I haven't looked at the scenario in the editor yet, but perhaps giving the Polish forces a series of waypoints where they go up to assault the town (not expecting to meet such a force defending it...), then withdraw (organized, not the crazy retreat and back again to bash themselves against the defenses the following turn...). After that, have them regroup together somewhere outside the town, and then proceed along a different route to the town/hill. This should at least force the player to maneuver and do some scouting, rather than just place a few sentries/spotters and hide behind the big guns...

[Raccoon_TOF]

Ok, I finished taking the forts...I did manage to (barely) take all the victory hexes before time ran out (one of the 2 reinforcement scout cars made it through the ATR fire along the roadway, supported by a reinforcement PzKpFw-IVc and luckily managed to crash through the 2 wooden buildings without being immobilized and only taking a non-fatal "turret" hit by the defending ATR in the woods as he entered the village for a run at the VH cluster in the village itself...taking the final VH with its last remaining movement point at the end of turn 17 and ending the scenario...).

Other than the loss of the other scout car to a bunker that I thought I had blocked with smoke but turned out I didn't quite, one of the PzKpFw-IVCs to a lucky ATR shot, and the Krupp to a minefield that my previous team of engineers missed (all 4 squads passed right over that tile without seeing it...it's a good thing they were auxiliaries, if they were my own forces the commander would have been shot for incompetence!) all the reinforcements survived till the end but were unable to reach the village in time.

Of my starting forces, I lost 1 spec ops squad in entirety to 4 rifle squads and a MG team that were hiding entrenched in the same tile in the rear of the main fort, and had 2 of my platoons at the secondary fort reduced to half strength in the assault. All remaining squads survived to the end, two full platoons had no casualties, and only 2 squads total from all the remaining platoons were even reduced to half strength (other the those mentioned as lost above). No AFV losses from my core forces, and no artillery losses.

By the final turn I had destroyed every single bunker, and all defending troops in both forts (there were still a couple of ATR teams along the roadway, at least 1 sniper loose around the smaller fort, whatever other defensive forces were in the town besides the ATR team in the trees by the front road entrance and the rifle squad overlooking the VH cluster, and a platoon HQ that appears to have vanished completely into the woods along the roadway despite my sending 3 recon teams through the woods to hunt him down and finish him off...with no success even spotting him).

Thinking that I had done an excellent job of maneuvering under cover, restricting my losses, and inflicting extremely heavy (near total) losses upon the enemy forces, I expected a decisive victory from the scenario...yet my result was a draw?!? And the flavor text said that I "met them head on" and needed to learn to conserve my troops, even though I assaulted from the rear of the forts, under cover, with full scouting and artillery support, and virtually no losses (especially compared to the kill rates against the enemy forces...).

Is there a forced time restriction to get anything better than a draw from the scenario? I double checked the VH locations, and didn't see any that rewarded points per turn held...and I was in control of all of them at the end of the final turn (even if it didn't count the village VH locations gained on the last turn, that would still only be 400 points, or 800 points difference counting that the Polish forces still held them, out of over 4000 total points for the scenario).

Did I just waste my time circling around and playing it safe? Should I have gone with a "quick and dirty" smoke-em, clear the obstacles, and frontal assault style attack instead? I honestly don't see anything I can point to that I did "wrong" other than taking a longer time to complete...I would have expected at the very least a marginal victory, not a draw.

Still, even with the disappointment at the end by the result, the entire duration of the scenario was very intense and enjoyable. I was literally on the edge of my seat every time I moved my recon teams, wondering if that move would be the unlucky one that got them spotted...and the first shot from the sniper outside the smaller fort as I was just about to assault the rear of it actually made me jump in my chair it came as such a surprise after having had no enemy fire for the entire scenario up till that point. All in all very enjoyable, and I'm looking forward to the remainder of the campaign...

[KNomad]

ORIGINAL: Raccoon_TOF

ORIGINAL: KNomad
I'm always leary of upgrading from one unit type to another.
Check the Armor ratings on your PzKwIV's, and the Artillery rating on your FO.

I'll bet they're quite low. [X(]

I waited to replace them with different types until they were completely eliminated (including crew of the command vehicle). As far as I can tell, if a unit is completely eliminated, it doesn't carry over any experience anyway, but gets replaced by a completely fresh unit with default skills when you "fix" it.

Wow - learned something new today. Thanks Raccoon.

[Goblin]

Hey Raccoon,

I just fought the fort map (one of the prettiest maps I have seen; nice job Orzel Bialy). I managed to scrape a DV out of it, while losing 61 men and 2 AFV's. I fought my way through the most direct routes, but used all my smoke to do it (which resulted in my AFV losses). My SpecOp troops took the vic hexes in the town and held them, which was sheer luck as they were outnumbered. Had I not been lucky on my assaults against the bunkers, I don't think I would have pulled the DV. Maybe a little luck helps on this one? I didn't see a per turn hex either.


Goblin

[Raccoon_TOF]

How many turns did it last? The full length? You suffered higher losses than I did, yet I ended up with a draw...

EDIT: Actually, looking at it again, with the Krupp in there too, I may have lost slightly more points worth of units than you did even though I lost less men. Though from the sounds of it I killed more of the enemy forces as well...

Anyway, still confused on this one, I'll try replaying with a direct frontal assault and see if I can pull a DV that way like you did...

[Goblin]

Turn 18. They lost 574 men and 32 'artillery pieces' (bunkers and those 75's, plus some mortars). I smoked out almost all of my guns before my troops even got to their lines. I do have 4 81mm mortars with an ammo truck, which really helped on pounding the defenses down somewhat. I infiltrated the AUX SpecOps troops too.

Goblin

[Raccoon_TOF]

Ok, they only lost 482 men in mine, and 29 arty. There must have been more defenders in the town to kill than I thought. Still, a fairly small difference in total kills and losses for it being the difference between a DV and a draw. Ahwell, I'll just have to move faster this time and kill off the town defenders too...

[Goblin]

Sounds like you may have just missed it on points (I think you need 6:1 points). Looks like you whooped the comps butt solid.

Lol, wanna laugh? The next one, Two Bridges, is my scenario, and I only scraped a MV out of it. Damn French 75's really laid a pounding on my AFV's![:@]

Knowing where the units are sometimes just doesn't help...[:@]

Ah well, had fun taking those hills though north of the bridges.[:D]


Goblin

[Alexandra]

I just started playing Das Reich today, and rather enjoyed the first scenario. The intro's to each scenario are also very enjoyable to read.

[Goblin]

Thanks Alexandra!

Any chance of getting a AAR or two from a favorite battle in the campaign?[:)]


Goblin