Why am I not a winner?!

[avaunt17]

I'm just getting my feet wet with this game so forgive me if I've overlooking something. [8|]

I played the 1st tutorial scenario as the WP. I deployed my companies on a reverse slope and let the NATO formation run right into me. It was a slaughter. However, the game was a draw. Yes, I had no units in sector 6, but the manual suggests I get a percentage of VPs if the enemy is reduced below a certain level (20%?)

Anyway, I looked at the below info from the TACOP Diary and it says all the steps survived even though all the platforms were destroyed. Am I missing something here? Am I not getting VPs because the step survival is being used in the enemy reduction calculation and they are being counted as 100% survived?


Final Tally of Battle Losses: NATO Forces -
HQ/A/1-11 Cavalry Troop - 2 of 2 steps survived.
1/A/1-11 Cavalry Plt - 4 of 4 steps survived.
2/A/1-11 Cavalry Plt - 4 of 4 steps survived.
3/A/1-11 Cavalry Plt - 6 of 6 steps survived.
4/A/1-11 Cavalry Plt - 6 of 6 steps survived.

M1A1 Abrams MBT - 0 of 9 survived.
M3 Bradley CFV - 0 of 12 survived.
M577 HQ - 0 of 1 survived.


Final Tally of Battle Losses: Warsaw Pact Forces -
HQ / 1 / 200 Gds MRR - 2 of 2 steps survived.
1 Co / 1 / 200 Gds MRR - 14 of 14 steps survived.
2 Co / 1 / 200 Gds MRR - 14 of 14 steps survived.
3 Co / 1 / 200 Gds MRR - 14 of 14 steps survived.

BTR-80 APC - 12 of 12 survived.
BTR-80 w AT-7 ATGM - 9 of 9 survived.
BTR-80 with AGS-17 - 9 of 9 survived.
BTR-80 HQ APC - 4 of 4 survived.
T-80BK MBT - 1 of 1 survived.
T-80B MBT - 9 of 9 survived.

[avaunt17]

[:(]
Me and my shadow
Strolling down the avenue
Me and my shadow
Not a soul to tell our troubles too
[:(]
And when it's twelve o'clock
We climb the stair
We never knock
For nobody's there
[:(]
Just me and my shadow
All alone and feeling blue
[:(]
Me and my shadow
Strolling down the avenue
Me and my shadow
Not a soul to tell our troubles too
[:(]
And when it's twelve o'clock
We climb the stair
We never knock
For nobody's there
[:(]
Just me and my shadow
All alone and feeling blue
[:(]

[Oleg Mastruko]

Post haikus not full sized sonnets (if that was a sonnet anyway [:D]) if you wish for an answer.

It seems to me you have two different issues here:

a) "Why you're not a winner"
b) Why are units you destroyed reported as surviving in the Tac Diary?

b) - I don't have a clue, perhaps it's a bug. I hope Robert or Erik see this. I personally never analyze Tac Diary so I wouldn't know.

As for a) - post a screenshot of your Staff Summary at the end of the game so we get better view of the situation.

On second thought I think it wasn't a sonnet, sonnets must have 14 verses if I remember well my Croatian literary classes from very very long ago. I guess 14 verse rule is same no matter which language sonnet is written in [>:]

Oleg

[Belphegor]

Sorry Avaunt17

The final tally of actual types is correct, the formation tally is not and has been noted.

why you didn't win? Will have to check.

[avaunt17]

I replayed the mission with a slightly different outcome. Below is the Staff Summary and TACOP Diary:

Final Tally of Battle Losses: NATO Forces -
HQ/A/1-11 Cavalry Troop - 2 of 2 steps survived.
1/A/1-11 Cavalry Plt - 4 of 4 steps survived.
2/A/1-11 Cavalry Plt - 4 of 4 steps survived.
3/A/1-11 Cavalry Plt - 6 of 6 steps survived.
4/A/1-11 Cavalry Plt - 0 of 6 steps survived.

M1A1 Abrams MBT - 0 of 9 survived.
M3 Bradley CFV - 0 of 12 survived.
M577 HQ - 0 of 1 survived.


Final Tally of Battle Losses: Warsaw Pact Forces -
HQ / 1 / 200 Gds MRR - 2 of 2 steps survived.
1 Co / 1 / 200 Gds MRR - 14 of 14 steps survived.
2 Co / 1 / 200 Gds MRR - 14 of 14 steps survived.
3 Co / 1 / 200 Gds MRR - 14 of 14 steps survived.

BTR-80 APC - 12 of 12 survived.
BTR-80 w AT-7 ATGM - 9 of 9 survived.
BTR-80 with AGS-17 - 9 of 9 survived.
BTR-80 HQ APC - 4 of 4 survived.
T-80BK MBT - 1 of 1 survived.
T-80B MBT - 9 of 9 survived.

In this case, I did get VP and credit for killing 6 steps from the 4/A/1-11. However all platforms were destroyed. Should all steps (22) be eliminated if all platforms fail to survive? The ratio seems to be 1 platform to 1 step. Is this a 'feature' to abstract that vehicles may just be abandonded and crew or supporting infantry may have survived so the 'step' is still an existing unit?

Either way, I thought I should get a percentage of the on map objective VPs even if I'm not occupying the proper sector IF the game ends prematurely due to enemy losses.

If I'm applying page 73 of the manual correctly:

Results I would expect:

(99-0)*100=99 VPs for sector 6

Results with what Staff Summary actually shows:
(99-70)*100=29 VPs for sector 6

This looks like a few problems:
1. The number of NATO runners should be zero at game's end if platforms
= steps = runners.
2. Zero is not 70% of line strength, its zero.
3. If you count step losses as displayed in the TACOP Diary you can get the 70%
(22-6)/22=72% rounded to 70%, but then the lower middle block for NATO should
read 016/70

The end result is the game ended because part of the game saw the NATO forces drop below 20% runners, yet another part of the game saw NATO runners at 70% and no calculation was made to award victory points for sector 6 taking into account WP runners minus NATO runners times 100VP for sector 6.

I would welcome feedback if I'm misreading the manual or not understanding the calculations made for victory.

Not a sonnet, Me and My Shadow is just an old standard credited to Dave Dreyer - Al Jolson - Billy Rose... Sinatra does an interesting version with Sammy: [:D]

Like the wallpaper sticks to the wall
Like the seashore clings to the sea
Like you'll never get rid of your shadow
Frank, you'll never get rid of me

Let all the others fight and fuss
Whatever happens, we've got us.

Me and my shadow
We're closer than pages that stick in a book
We're closer than ripples that play in a brook
Strolling down the avenue
Wherever you find him, you'll find me, just look
Closer than a miser or the bloodhound's ?????

Me and my shadow
We're closer than smog when it clings to L.A.
We're closer than Bobby is to J.F.K.
Not a soul can bust this team in two
We stick together like glue

And when it's sleeping time
That's when we rise
We start to swing
Swing to the skies
Our clocks don't chime
What a surprise
They ring-a-ding-ding!
Happy New Year!

Me and my shadow
And now to repeat what I said at the start
They'll need a large crowbar to break us apart
We're alone but far from blue

Before we get finished, we'll make the town roar
We'll make all the late spots, and then a few more
We'll wind up at Jilly's right after Toot's Shore
Life is gonna be we-wow-whee!
(Here comes the party!)
For my shadow and me!

Say Frank?
What is it, Sam?
Do me a favor?
What do you want, now?
Would you mind taking it, just one more time?
From the top?
No! From the ending!
Wonderful!

And while we are swinging, to mention a few
We'll drop in at Danny's, The Little Club too
But wind up at Jilly's, whatever we do
Life is gonna be we-wow-whee!
(Wow!)
For my shadow and me!

Frank?
Oh, forget it Sam.

[avaunt17]

I played the second tutorial as NATO against WP and it's another example of where the numbers between destroyed steps and destroyed equipment don't agree:

Final Tally of Battle Losses: Warsaw Pact Forces -
HQ / 1 / 200 Gds MRR - 1 of 1 steps survived.
1 Co / 1 / 200 Gds MRR - 0 of 11 steps survived.
2 Co / 1 / 200 Gds MRR - 0 of 11 steps survived.
3 Co / 1 / 200 Gds MRR - 2 of 11 steps survived.
Mortar / 1 / 200 Gds MRR - 8 of 8 steps survived.
SAM Plt / 1 / 200 Gds MRR - 3 of 3 steps survived.
AGL Plt / 1 / 200 Gds MRR - 3 of 3 steps survived.
AT Plt / 1 / 200 Gds MRR - 4 of 5 steps survived.
1 How / A / 200 Gds MRR - 8 of 8 steps survived.
HQ / 1 / 172 GAR - 3 of 3 steps survived.
1 Btty / 1 / 172 GAR - 8 of 8 steps survived.
2 Btty / 1 / 172 GAR - 8 of 8 steps survived.
3 Btty / 1 / 172 GAR - 8 of 8 steps survived.
Su-17 Flight - 2 of 2 steps survived.

Totals: 58 of 90 steps survived
Destroyed: 32

2S1 SP 122mm Howitzer - 6 of 6 survived.
BTR 120mm Mortar - 8 of 8 survived.
2S3M SP 152mm Howitzer - 18 of 18 survived.
Arty Command Vehicle - 10 of 10 survived.
BMP-2K HQ - 1 of 1 survived.
BTR-80 APC - 0 of 12 survived.
BTR-80 w AT-4 ATGM - 0 of 5 survived.
BTR-80 w AT-7 ATGM - 1 of 9 survived.
BTR-80 with AGS-17 - 4 of 12 survived.
BTR-80 HQ APC - 1 of 4 survived.
BTR-80 Gremlin - 3 of 3 survived.
SU-17 Fitter - 2 of 2 survived.

Totals: 54 of 90 steps survived
Destroyed: 36

WP steps on map in Staff Overview and Summary window: (9+8+8) 25
WP off map steps: 24 (1-3 172 GAR Btty) +2 (SU-17 Flt) +3 (HQ 172 GAR Btty) = 29
Total: 54
Destroyed: 36

This leaves a difference of 4 steps...