Playing China

[MikeS4269]

I know it is hard to talk about a game that has yet to be released yet, but....

Among friends, I have been able to find five players who are looking forward to playing WatW over email. My concern comes that someone is going to need to take China. On the scale that this game is covering, and from the screen shots I have seen, I can't see that as nearly being as pleasurable/challenging as those covering the other four powers. When Japan has naval, air, and ground units running all over the globe, China looks like it will have a stack of a few infantry and maybe a plane or two. Though historically accurate, perhaps, in a five way game, how will this work? We are all about equal level in our playing ability, and I would almost feel guilty for the player who landed the Middle Kingdom.....

Has anyone had a chance to get any more information on this, from the Chinese angle?

Thanks!

-Lb

[Hanal]

I played China v the AI awhile ago and, while I will not pretend that it is anywhere near as facinating as the other powers, there is some interesting things you can do....of course, your main goal is to survive Japan's initial offensives..then you try to tie up as many Japanese units as possible to keep them from being used against the WA...if the Japanese start pulling out, you might even be able to expand your territory a bit....production and research are limited, and you need to build alot of AA units because the Japanese air force will pound you...I remember trying to build a Chinese armor unit, which turned out not being a wise move, because it tied up too much manufacturing for too long....what I would recommend is rotating who plays China from game to game as I'm sure you and your friends will be playing the game more than once.....

[YohanTM2]

Having been involved with testing for some months I would not play CH by itself unless I was the new kid on the block looking to come up to speed on the game. The game is one of the best 4 player games for PBEM though!

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: lb4269

I know it is hard to talk about a game that has yet to be released yet, but....

Among friends, I have been able to find five players who are looking forward to playing WatW over email. My concern comes that someone is going to need to take China. On the scale that this game is covering, and from the screen shots I have seen, I can't see that as nearly being as pleasurable/challenging as those covering the other four powers. When Japan has naval, air, and ground units running all over the globe, China looks like it will have a stack of a few infantry and maybe a plane or two. Though historically accurate, perhaps, in a five way game, how will this work? We are all about equal level in our playing ability, and I would almost feel guilty for the player who landed the Middle Kingdom.....

Has anyone had a chance to get any more information on this, from the Chinese angle?

Thanks!

-Lb

Keep in mind that you can make China controllable by either Soviet or WA player, as it's usually done in 4-player PBEMs.

O.

[MikeS4269]

I had been kind of hoping that China was going to have more hidden benefits to play with, but I guess what you see is what you get. Not knowing all the decisions/planning/reasoning that went into this game, I will not question their decision on the splitting of the powers the way they did. (And, as I said before, I haven't even played it yet, making this all just speculations at best.)

When it comes to computer gaming, does anyone know of any programs or scenarios that really get into depth on the China/Japan conflict? I have looked at the Heart of Iron series, but I was looking for more as well. It seems a part of the war that seems to get little attention in the greater scheme of things. (I have found limited board games on it, but almost nothing in the computer world...)

-Lb

[bmodified]

Most global level games treat China as a punching bag for Japan, and a trigger for ratcheting up US entry.

The inclusion of China as a fifth power, rather than the somewhat more traditional splitting of the US/Commonwealth has had me scratching my head. It would seem logical to have the UK as a seperate player, with China giving the US player something to do before US entry. A lot of games throw the various allied minors to the UK as they are attacked.

On the Axis side, lots of games lump Germany and Italy together, although the Italian situation does have some interest to it because of Italian sea power.

Of course, everybody indicates that the split in GGWAW does playtest well, and perhaps we are better off looking at it as a four player game with an optional fifth China slot.

BTW, I'm sure this has been spoken to before, but are the victory conditions absolute for the two sides or are there levels of performance of each nation? It would be entertaining to see a shrewd Chinese player garner an overall win if he ends up with a better than historical outcome.

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: lb4269
When it comes to computer gaming, does anyone know of any programs or scenarios that really get into depth on the China/Japan conflict?

War in the Pacific? [:D]

Seriously, WAW treats Japan-China conflict very realistically, but there is simply nothing "glamorous" to do, just a lenghty attrition battle between two infantry-heavy armies, one having numbers on its side, the other having somewhat more advanced technology on theirs. And some air campaigns, very limited in scope. That's what you should get in any realistic representation of China-Japan war and that's what you get in WAW.

O.

[WanderingHead]

Of course, I've never played the game (and I look forward to the day that I can no longer say that honestly), but I must say that the way China has been implemented seems perfectly reasonable to me. In fact, it simply seems like the right way to do it.

Equating China with America doesn't really make much sense, and leads to such oddities as America building mountains of tanks in Sinkiang a la Axis and Allies. Nothing against A&A (I love it, and AA Pacific did a better job anyway), but there is really no bearing in reality.

[MikeS4269]

Are there any games that focus just on the China/Japan part of the war?

[bmodified]

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead

...SNIP...

Equating China with America doesn't really make much sense, and leads to such oddities as America building mountains of tanks in Sinkiang a la Axis and Allies. Nothing against A&A (I love it, and AA Pacific did a better job anyway), but there is really no bearing in reality.

Well, I would think that an intellegent design would emphasize the alliance of China and the US, without allowing for Chrysler to set up shop in Chungking. I am confident that this could be simmed without the A&A Chinese production fest problem. The US/China dual hat does make sense in that they are both opposed to Japan, and the US player doesn't have a whole lot to do on the map until they enter the war.

It is problematic no matter what way you go. There was a distinct divergence of opinion between the US and UK over strategic matters early in the war, and the dynamic of a Churchill lobbying for a "Germany first" strategy with amphibous assets in short supply and in demand by the US forces in the Pacific could lead to some interesting tension there, and this will be pretty well glossed over with one player leading both powers.

On the other hand, The US/UK player in GGWAW will not be sitting around the way a US only player would be early on, and the Anglo-American alliance was really pretty solid.

I've had a good time playing the Italians in World in Flames, and am a little sorry that they won't go solo in GGWAW. Turning the Med in to the proverbial Axis lake can be a big moral victory for Italy.