Need a good Eastern Front book

[rhondabrwn]

ORIGINAL: Heliotic

ORIGINAL: Warfare1
"Barbarossa" by Alan Clark

I found this book quite good!

Definitely! The maps are excellent and well placed for easy reference as you read the book. I also found the book to be an even-handed analysis of the war.

[rhondabrwn]

Though obviously influenced by his personal viewpoint, I always found Von Manstein's "Lost Victories" to be a fascinating read. I discovered that one when I was in high school (1960's) and experimenting with my own game designs.

[rhondabrwn]

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

Try Russia at War: 1941-1945 by Alexander Werth (close to 1100 pages from a Russian perspective).

Also a favorite around here is Panzer Commander by Hans Von Luck.

AN interesting and comprehensive work, but I found "Russia at War" to be a bit of a "dense" read... more of a research source than casual reading. Panzer Command was suitable for getting a tactical viewpoint from the German perspective.

I used to have a two volume set by... Paul Carel (???) which I'm thinking was called "Fire in the East"... can anyone refresh my memory?

I donated most of my book collection to the local high school a few years back... how I wish I had them all back now! At the time, I had no idea I would become a social studies teacher as I built a new life after my divorce. Ah well....

[Charles2222]

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

Try Russia at War: 1941-1945 by Alexander Werth (close to 1100 pages from a Russian perspective).

Also a favorite around here is Panzer Commander by Hans Von Luck.

AN interesting and comprehensive work, but I found "Russia at War" to be a bit of a "dense" read... more of a research source than casual reading. Panzer Command was suitable for getting a tactical viewpoint from the German perspective.

I used to have a two volume set by... Paul Carel (???) which I'm thinking was called "Fire in the East"... can anyone refresh my memory?

I donated most of my book collection to the local high school a few years back... how I wish I had them all back now! At the time, I had no idea I would become a social studies teacher as I built a new life after my divorce. Ah well....

Well Russia at War is something unique, irrespective of the ease of reading it. I don't know many books that even slightly got into the head of the Kremlin. If for nothing else, it at least at one time gave me ammunition to counter the idea that the USSR always had a 8-to-1 advantage against the Germans in what ever category might come up (I believe it's tanks that is mythically believed for them to have that advantage). The book detailed those tank armies drive for Berlin, and what you would expect would have been the most lopsided tank battles for the USSR, those, they didn't even match 8-to-1 there. IIRC it wasn't even 4-to-1 for those battles.

[rhondabrwn]

Don't overlook some of the old wargaming magazines like Strategy & Tactics, Moves, Fire & Movement, and others. Lots of great articles on WWII - Eastern Front in those mags. Generally very concise information presentation by some pretty good gamers and military historians.

You can find these for sale on E-bay and other sites.

Oh, and I don't know how easy these are to come by, but years ago there was a 96 issue magazine that was sold on the newstands entitled: "History of the Second World War"

It was edited by Sir Basil Liddell Hart (one of the great military historians and strategists) and published by Marshall Cavendish, USA Ltd 1973

I've got the entire set and wouldn't part with them for anything. Great detail, fantastic photos and drawings, and fully indexed. Lots of coverage of the Russian Front included. I've got Part 32 sitting in front of me right now with articles on the First Burma Campaign, Air War in the Far East, and Battle of the Coral Sea. each issue runs about 30 pages, but with very small type so the amount of information in an issue is huge. Each article is written by different historians.

Just think... this was actually sold in grocery store newstands in 1973... imagine trying to do that today with our current illiterate masses of consumers! Still, this would be a fantastic resource to be republished or even combined into a hard bound six volume set.

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn



I used to have a two volume set by... Paul Carel (???) which I'm thinking was called "Fire in the East"... can anyone refresh my memory?

Rhonda, the two books by Paul Carell (pseudonym for Paul Karl Schmidt) are "Hitler Moves East 1941-43" and "Scorched Earth 1943-44". These are classics for the detail on the German side.

[Warfare1]

ORIGINAL: Warfare1

Another great book about the Pacific War is:

"The Rising Sun" by John Toland

I would also recommend "The Pacific War" by John Costello.

Both books are great reads when playing UV or WiTP...

[rhondabrwn]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn



I used to have a two volume set by... Paul Carel (???) which I'm thinking was called "Fire in the East"... can anyone refresh my memory?

Rhonda, the two books by Paul Carell (pseudonym for Paul Karl Schmidt) are "Hitler Moves East 1941-43" and "Scorched Earth 1943-44". These are classics for the detail on the German side.

Those are the ones! Thanks!

[rhondabrwn]

Perhaps we should start a thread to discuss the "ultimate Military History bookshelf collection"?

Anyone up for that mental exercise?

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Perhaps we should start a thread to discuss the "ultimate Military History bookshelf collection"?

Anyone up for that mental exercise?

A list like this exists over at the Depot, but I'd be happy to help put one together over here. It's times like this that I regret giving up mod status, as it would be a great sticky thread. I've got several titles that I'd suggest for the Pacific Theater. If you want to start it, Rhonda, be my guest. [:)]

[Adam Parker]

Don't touch Glantz's "When Titans Clashed" - its maps are useless and see my review at Amazon for more [;)]

Overy's "Russia's War" gives a much better and readable introduction, then look for some of Glantz's more esoteric texts such as his "Stumbling Colossus" which debates the myth of revisionists that Stalin planned to invade Germany in 1941 - basically a doctrine/TO&E/OOB treatment of the Soviet Military capability from the 1930's - 1941. Glantz is also (if not already) about to publish a follow up study of the Soviet Military from 1942-43.

A very nice text is "Hitler's Nemesis" by Walter Dunn 1994 which discusses the birth and operations of the WW2 Soviet Military and its adaption to the Wehrmacht covering the entire war in some intimate detail.

Then to really get into the dust and mud, you can't beat the entertainment value of texts such a Paul Carell's "Scorched Earth" and Craig's "Stalingrad". Though there are some fine new treatments of individual campaigns releasing too.

Adam.

(Deleted ref to Normandy book as o/t!)

[rhondabrwn]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Perhaps we should start a thread to discuss the "ultimate Military History bookshelf collection"?

Anyone up for that mental exercise?

A list like this exists over at the Depot, but I'd be happy to help put one together over here. It's times like this that I regret giving up mod status, as it would be a great sticky thread. I've got several titles that I'd suggest for the Pacific Theater. If you want to start it, Rhonda, be my guest. [:)]

I have a research paper due tomorrow at 9:30 am... perhaps on Friday [;)]

[IronDuke_slith]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

Don't touch Glantz's "When Titans Clashed" - its maps are useless and see my review at Amazon for more [;)]

I'll go and take a look at your review, I quite enjoyed this book. As a one volume study of the Military aspects, I thought it was peerless. Overy was interesting but quite thin. The maps weren't great in Titans, but they were good enough to follow I felt.

Overy's "Russia's War" gives a much better and readable introduction, then look for some of Glantz's more esoteric texts such as his "Stumbling Colossus" which debates the myth of revisionists that Stalin planned to invade Germany in 1941 - basically a doctrine/TO&E/OOB treatment of the Soviet Military capability from the 1930's - 1941. Glantz is also (if not already) about to publish a follow up study of the Soviet Military from 1942-43.

I've came across this theory and found it more than a myth, but not totally convincing. It does do a neat job of explaining Soviet dispositions in June 1941 and some of Stalin's myopia. Whilst it can't be said the Soviets were on the verge of invading, it might be said they were making preparations.

A very nice text is "Hitler's Nemesis" by Walter Dunn 1994 which discusses the birth and operations of the WW2 Soviet Military and its adaption to the Wehrmacht covering the entire war in some intimate detail.

Haven't read this. I shall look it up.

Then to really get into the dust and mud, you can't beat the entertainment value of texts such a Paul Carell's "Scorched Earth" and Craig's "Stalingrad". Though there are some fine new treatments of individual campaigns releasing too.

I thought Glantz and House's Kursk was peerless in this respect.

Re Neillands and Normandy (you deleted the comments but I can't resist a reply) I stopped reading this after about three chapters. I had misgivings during the introduction. He seemed less intent on writing a military history of the campaign and more intent on elavating Montgomery (without really understanding what was driving him) and having an occasionally condescending pop at the Americans at each and every juncture. Had he let the facts do his talking and spent less time spelling it all out he may have made a point, but as it was...

D'Este and Hasting's accounts remain the best general studies.

Regards,
IronDuke


Adam.

(Deleted ref to Normandy book as o/t!)
[/quote]

[KG Erwin]

This one isn't well-known, but for the 1941-42 period, I can recommend Robert J. Kershaw's "War Without Garlands". Good tactical info, useful for fans of SPWaW and Schwerpunkt's Russo-German War.

Someone else mentioned "Stumbling Colossus", by David Glantz, and if you want the latest research on the state of the Red Army in 1941, this is a great reference.

I have both of these books, and several others mentioned in this thread. Special mention must be given to the late John Erickson, who began the process of opening up the Soviet archives with 1975's "The Road to Stalingrad". Unfortunately, it is a difficult read, as it assumes some prior knowledge of the Russian military establishment, but the Professor laid much of the groundwork for subsequent researchers to build upon. [&o]

[Adam Parker]

Iron Duke and KG here is the new Glantz book I was refering to as a follow on to "Stumbling Colossus":

"Colossus Reborn: The Red Army at War, 1941-1943". Seems to be out now.

Should be a facinating read covering the most difficult period the Soviets faced in rebuilding their forces, finding cadre and then learning from some severe mistakes until the generation of their steam roller tactics post Kursk.

Iron Duke, the worst thing I found in Glantz's "Titans" was its mixing of Front names in some sections due to poor proof reading. It's maps were way too general for the operational coverage the book tried to convey. And this is a shame as Glantz is best known if anything, for his maps. If Glantz has a real flaw in his general writing however, it is simply repetition.

As for Neillands - you'll see I refered to him here (before the edit) as Robert when he is Robin! Anyway folks the book in question is "The Battle For Normandy 1944" and if Glantz repeats himself, Neillands just forgets! He'll start a sentence and by the end of the book you'll still be looking for its second half. Very frustrating editing and writing.

As for Dunn, you'll be interested to see that his efforts were a precursor to those of Glantz - and inspiration for Glantz in fact.

Adam.

(Edit - darn typo's [;)] )

[KG Erwin]

Ok, guys, so we have some great information being presented in recent years, but two major problems surface:

1. Poor writing skills
2. Poor editing

Neither of these problems bode well for the future of new military history
books, and this tells me that aspiring writers should look to this genre and pump fresh blood into it.

[Adam Parker]

Did I tell you that I once bought "How to do Everything with Photoshop CS" published by McGraw Hill and got so frustrated that I rang their world head office and arranged to post-retail proof read the garbage I had just bought!

50+ typos and glitches later in such a small book, I'd earned a couple of hundred dollars in titles from their stable as thanks for the effort. No way fair compensation I tell ya [:D]

Then I bought their Illustrator book and on one of the first pages saw a nice chart calling the "Warp" tool "Wrap".

"Crap" would have made me feel better [;)]

[KG Erwin]

Adam, apart from typo glitches, I have a copy of Bryan Fugate's "Operation Barbarossa", first edition 1984, that has several pages out of order. I just hand-wrote the corrections at the top of the pages. I just imagined it was like reading a freakin' newspaper or magazine (cont on page xx or whatever). When one buys a hard-cover book, one could at least expect the pages to be in order. [:@]

[KG Erwin]

On the flip-side, though, I found my paperback copy of Eugene B. Sledge's "With the Old Breed at Peleliu and Okinawa" to be beautifully done, with much care taken for the photos, drawings and maps to be faithfully reproduced.

(This is for the new thread on "The Ultimate Military History Library").

[Hartley]

You can find all the EF maps you even wanted on the internet anyways.

Too bad a lot of them are in cyrillic, though.