The WitP Player's Creed

[ADavidB]

Having played WitP since buying it when it first came out, I have recently had a "religous conversion" and now realize that it is me and not the game that makes things seem not to work out right. Therefore I want to share my new found WitP Creed with the rest of you.

1 - I believe that my ships really will upgrade someday, if I keep them in some special port, with some special combination of ARs and some special naval base HQs and some special supply and so on, but that they don't right now because, they, like I, are not worthy

2 - I believe that P-36s do not upgrade because fundamentally, they, like I, are not worthy.

3 - I believe that my ships will really repair themselves someday, under the same conditions as in Belief #1 above

4 - I believe that my troops can only move 1 mile a day across a level field, because fundamentally, they, like I, are not worthy

5 - I believe that mine layers can only re-load mines in main ports that are thousands of miles from the front lines because, they, like I, are not worthy

6 - I believe that when I have 400 pieces of field artillary, and my opponent has 600 pieces of field artillary, that none of the shells that I shoot off will cause any casualties amongst my opponent because, my artillary pieces, like I, are not worthy.

7 - I believe that when I have 100 tanks and armoured cars and my opponent has 20,000 unarmored infantry and we are on open ground that my opponent will smite my tanks and armoured cars with no tank or armoured car firing a shot, because my tanks and armoured cars, like I, are not worthy

8 - I believe that when I run two parallel games that when planes arrive on time in one of the games, and don't show up at all in the other, that it is because they planes, like I, are not worthy. (Thanks to Brother Mog for reminding me of that one.)

That is enough enlightenment for the rest of you for now.

Remember the Blessing of WitP - "Knowledge is Ignorance"

In all humility,

Brother Dave

[Tankerace]

Is this the start of a cult or a rant? [:D]

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Is this the start of a cult or a rant? [:D]

There's a difference? [;)]

Brother Dave

[denisonh]

Interpreting abstracted combat models is a b1tch

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: denisonh

Interpreting abstracted combat models is a b1tch

That's why you need "True Belief" so that you stop trying to understand.

Brother Dave

[denisonh]

No,

My approach is to just down multiple pints o Guinness to a point I don't worry about it.

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

ORIGINAL: denisonh

Interpreting abstracted combat models is a b1tch

That's why you need "True Belief" so that you stop trying to understand.

Brother Dave

[WiTP_Dude]

Seek not knowledge, but enlightment in the ways of Him, who has begeted this creation.

[&o]

[mogami]

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

Having played WitP since buying it when it first came out, I have recently had a "religous conversion" and now realize that it is me and not the game that makes things seem not to work out right. Therefore I want to share my new found WitP Creed with the rest of you.

1 - I believe that my ships really will upgrade someday, if I keep them in some special port, with some special combination of ARs and some special naval base HQs and some special supply and so on, but that they don't right now because, they, like I, are not worthy

2 - I believe that P-36s do not upgrade because fundamentally, they, like I, are not worthy.

3 - I believe that my ships will really repair themselves someday, under the same conditions as in Belief #1 above

4 - I believe that my troops can only move 1 mile a day across a level field, because fundamentally, they, like I, are not worthy

5 - I believe that mine layers can only re-load mines in main ports that are thousands of miles from the front lines because, they, like I, are not worthy

6 - I believe that when I have 400 pieces of field artillary, and my opponent has 600 pieces of field artillary, that none of the shells that I shoot off will cause any casualties amongst my opponent because, my artillary pieces, like I, are not worthy.

7 - I believe that when I have 100 tanks and armoured cars and my opponent has 20,000 unarmored infantry and we are on open ground that my opponent will smite my tanks and armoured cars with no tank or armoured car firing a shot, because my tanks and armoured cars, like I, are not worthy

8 - I believe that when I run two parallel games that when planes arrive on time in one of the games, and don't show up at all in the other, that it is because they planes, like I, are not worthy. (Thanks to Brother Mog for reminding me of that one.)

That is enough enlightenment for the rest of you for now.

Remember the Blessing of WitP - "Knowledge is Ignorance"

In all humility,

Brother Dave

1. I am worthy. My ships upgrade
2. They do when ac are in pool.
3. Mine repair (I must be better then you)
4. Stop marching when fatigue is over 60
5. Is there any part of map that is more then 20 hexes from a port that can load mines
or a port a MLE can base from?
6. No not all attacks produce results. Just like in RL
7. The day 20,000 infantry do not kill 100 tanks is the day it gets silly. The all time number 1 tank killer is infantry
8 no thats a bug.

For this to be a creed it would have to be true for all persons at all times.
There have been hundereds of "Why won't my...." posted. I always say "send file to"
To date I've gotten perhap a half dozen. I've asked for files within 20 minutes of the orginal post and never gotten a reply.

I don't guess why things happen or don't happen in other peoples games. I need to see to find out.

[ZonkerHarris]

Good stuff! I'll add one from the Japanese point of view:

I will take it as an article of faith that my factories actually produced something, and that they had adequate oil and/or resources. If my Heavy Industry pool drops by 2,000 or so from one turn to the next without any visible reason, I'll accept that WitP moves in mysterious ways. [:D]

(Oh, and the division that whacked your tank regiment may only have 7 tankettes, but it's got 40 AT guns (which upgraded to a newer model since the war began) plus assorted field artillery. It also has 90 experience, a high prep value for the city next door and a good leader; they didn't hurt either. [;)])

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: ZonkerH

Good stuff! I'll add one from the Japanese point of view:

I will take it as an article of faith that my factories actually produced something, and that they had adequate oil and/or resources. If my Heavy Industry pool drops by 2,000 or so from one turn to the next without any visible reason, I'll accept that WitP moves in mysterious ways. [:D]

(Oh, and the division that whacked your tank regiment may only have 7 tankettes, but it's got 40 AT guns (which upgraded to a newer model since the war began) plus assorted field artillery. It also has 90 experience, a high prep value for the city next door and a good leader; they didn't hurt either. [;)])

So how did it get close enough over open countryside to get any shots off first, let alone all the shots? (Ever read the accounts of what happened to the Japanese infantry in 1938 in Siberia when they went against the Soviets?)

Brother Dave

[mogami]

Hi, The Soviets had 1700+ tanks supported by infantry.

Infantry can always get close to unsupported tanks.

[Mike Scholl]

I offer one other....

I believe that a Nate (with 2 30 cal mg's) can shoot down a B-17 (with 8 50 cal's, and a 30) while sufferring no damage in return. This is because the ability to fly in tight circles is the true determinator of being a steady and tough gun platform, and the skill of my pilots has something to do with their tissue-paper aircraft not being shot to shreads by enemies with more firepower and longer ranged guns.

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

Having played WitP since buying it when it first came out, I have recently had a "religous conversion" and now realize that it is me and not the game that makes things seem not to work out right. Therefore I want to share my new found WitP Creed with the rest of you.

1 - I believe that my ships really will upgrade someday, if I keep them in some special port, with some special combination of ARs and some special naval base HQs and some special supply and so on, but that they don't right now because, they, like I, are not worthy

2 - I believe that P-36s do not upgrade because fundamentally, they, like I, are not worthy.

3 - I believe that my ships will really repair themselves someday, under the same conditions as in Belief #1 above

4 - I believe that my troops can only move 1 mile a day across a level field, because fundamentally, they, like I, are not worthy

5 - I believe that mine layers can only re-load mines in main ports that are thousands of miles from the front lines because, they, like I, are not worthy

6 - I believe that when I have 400 pieces of field artillary, and my opponent has 600 pieces of field artillary, that none of the shells that I shoot off will cause any casualties amongst my opponent because, my artillary pieces, like I, are not worthy.

7 - I believe that when I have 100 tanks and armoured cars and my opponent has 20,000 unarmored infantry and we are on open ground that my opponent will smite my tanks and armoured cars with no tank or armoured car firing a shot, because my tanks and armoured cars, like I, are not worthy

8 - I believe that when I run two parallel games that when planes arrive on time in one of the games, and don't show up at all in the other, that it is because they planes, like I, are not worthy. (Thanks to Brother Mog for reminding me of that one.)

That is enough enlightenment for the rest of you for now.

Remember the Blessing of WitP - "Knowledge is Ignorance"

In all humility,

Brother Dave

1. I am worthy. My ships upgrade

It will be interesting to see if I also am worthy in my game where I did receive planes. (I am getting visions of bugs here.)

2. They do when ac are in pool.

My unworthy ac are in the pool

3. Mine repair (I must be better then you)

Once again, I'll see what happens in the parallel game. Interestingly enough, the only difference is that the first, "unworthy" game was started at "non-historical", while the so-far "worthy" game was started at historical. (Historical = get Wellingtons when supposed to, non-historical means don't get Wellingtons at all, despite 80 in the pool.)

4. Stop marching when fatigue is over 60

Why such a "ritual"? A few thousand men can line up in a line that is more than a mile long, why can't they march more than one mile on open ground if their fatigue is over 60?

5. Is there any part of map that is more then 20 hexes from a port that can load mines
or a port a MLE can base from?

How many MLEs do either side start out with?

6. No not all attacks produce results. Just like in RL

I just don't believe that. I've said it many times before, the model for artillary is based upon ratios of numbers when it should be based upon quantity of weaponry fired, just like bomb attacks. What I stated for 400 to 600 works exactly the same for 1000 to 1600. And if the two forces are engaged closely enough for infantry to do attacks, 1000 artillary pieces are going to hit something.

7. The day 20,000 infantry do not kill 100 tanks is the day it gets silly. The all time number 1 tank killer is infantry

In cities, not in open countryside.

8 no thats a bug.

Which makes me think that the missing Wellingtons are only one visible symptom of the problem. I'm also seeing the same engineers in the same bases with the same amounts of supplies increase base values at rates that are 2 to 3 times different or more.


For this to be a creed it would have to be true for all persons at all times.
There have been hundereds of "Why won't my...." posted. I always say "send file to"
To date I've gotten perhap a half dozen. I've asked for files within 20 minutes of the orginal post and never gotten a reply.

I don't guess why things happen or don't happen in other peoples games. I need to see to find out.

Unfortunately, some of what I am seeing takes game-months to show up and doesn't happen all at once. If things were nice and simple like in the "Lex Hex" that I identified, then it would be easy to send a specific save to you.

See comments in Brother Mog's reply above.

Brother Dave

[ZonkerHarris]

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

Once again, I'll see what happens in the parallel game. Interestingly enough, the only difference is that the first, "unworthy" game was started at "non-historical", while the so-far "worthy" game was started at historical. (Historical = get Wellingtons when supposed to, non-historical means don't get Wellingtons at all, despite 80 in the pool.)

Just curious Dave, but in the other game, did you get these Wellingtons as an upgrade or as a reinforcement unit? If they're a reinforcement, have you loaded any of the old turns to see if they were in the queue for our game?

[WiTP_Dude]

The unwise man questions what he should not know. The wise man knows what he should not question.

[&o]

[mogami]

Hi, So you are saying that WITP is preventing a historic (or historicly possible) massive mine barrage in 1941-1942? In areas far from major bases. (Since you can mine the snot of areas close to major bases)

No, infantry in open flat terrian kills tanks They will always defeat tanks that have no infantry support.
The tank early in the war was a "feared weapon" like elephants. However trained infantry defeats tanks. Always has always will.

[Stavka_lite]

with all of that being said and debated I can't believe that no one said

AMEN

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: ZonkerH

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

Once again, I'll see what happens in the parallel game. Interestingly enough, the only difference is that the first, "unworthy" game was started at "non-historical", while the so-far "worthy" game was started at historical. (Historical = get Wellingtons when supposed to, non-historical means don't get Wellingtons at all, despite 80 in the pool.)

Just curious Dave, but in the other game, did you get these Wellingtons as an upgrade or as a reinforcement unit? If they're a reinforcement, have you loaded any of the old turns to see if they were in the queue for our game?

Reinforcement unit. I've received none in our game, despite their being 80 or more in the pool, and there are none in queue in our game.

The other big, noticible difference in the two games is that my island bases are upgrading much, much faster in the second, "historical" game in comparison to ours, and that's with me getting supplies to those bases in the "historical" game weeks after I did in our game.

Dave

[sprior]

Thou shalt only put one sub per hex lest thou wish to see them as scenery in Finding Nemo
Thou shalt put thy Zeroes back on Escort/CAP after thy PH attack lest thou wish to lose the war before Christmas
Move not thy troops from Manchuria lest thee wish to fight the Russians too
Let not the allied shipping escape from the Philiipines
Preserve thy pilots

[testarossa]

I believe, in 1943 at Kursk salient, germans tried to use “Elefant” assault guns without infantry support on open field against entrenched Russian infantry (they thought that 200 mm armor and 88-mm gun is a fearsome combination).

Russian infantry with no feasible antitank weapons using gasoline bottles defeated them. After that germans installed MG on “elefant” and used it as long-range tank destroyer far away from enemy infantry.

But in this case I think its more the numbers than anything else. However good the tanks are they cant operate without fuel, ammo and maintenance. If they get cut off from these necessities they are doomed. And I’m pretty sure 100 tanks will be surrounded by 20000 infantry and shred to pieces.