Combined Historical Scenario - Naval Units

[2ndACR]

Putting the Utah in? Well, that is another reason for me to go after Manila. The PH raid already sucks as it is, much less with another "BB" there soaking up ammo.

[CobraAus]

Maybe, I just saw a sailboat graphic and thought ooh, a sailboat. Well I suggest the Rochester. LOL, its been a long day for me

icon already made

Cobra Aus

[CobraAus]

Are/should we add the Soviet Pacific Fleet? Not sure how it would affect game vs AI.

this seems to have lost in the ruck can we have more discussion on this subject, I for One would love to see a Russian Navy and if poss some of the Chinese ships that Ive seen when reseaching other ships all the map icons are there for them.


Cobra Aus

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: CobraAus

Are/should we add the Soviet Pacific Fleet? Not sure how it would affect game vs AI.

this seems to have lost in the ruck can we have more discussion on this subject, I for One would love to see a Russian Navy and if poss some of the Chinese ships that Ive seen when reseaching other ships all the map icons are there for them.


Cobra Aus

I don't think the game can handle it unfortunately. I believe this to be the reason why we were told not to bother during Alpha. No way for game to recognize neutrality of shipping.

[Tankerace]

I believe we are putting in US gunboats/chinese gunboats, at least I did the graphics and sent them to Don..... not sure how long they'd last, but ya never know.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

I believe we are putting in US gunboats/chinese gunboats, at least I did the graphics and sent them to Don..... not sure how long they'd last, but ya never know.

Yes we are - the five U.S. Panay/Wake/Luzon class river gunboats from the China Squadron. Three were historically sent to the Philippines (and lost there) and a couple stayed in China (one captured, one turned over to China).

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

ORIGINAL: CobraAus

Are/should we add the Soviet Pacific Fleet? Not sure how it would affect game vs AI.

this seems to have lost in the ruck can we have more discussion on this subject, I for One would love to see a Russian Navy and if poss some of the Chinese ships that Ive seen when reseaching other ships all the map icons are there for them.


Cobra Aus

I don't think the game can handle it unfortunately. I believe this to be the reason why we were told not to bother during Alpha. No way for game to recognize neutrality of shipping.

The Soviet shipping cannot be frozen in port until Soviets enter the war??? Like the land units???

[Bradley7735]

Why not have them come in as reinforcements to the various ports in 8/45? Isn't that the date that the Soviets become active, regardless of the Kwantung army?

It's not a perfect solution, but I think it's better than leaving them out completely.

bc

[Tankerace]

Or we could start them out at 99 damage, at least delay their entry for a year or two....

[Lemurs!]

I don't want to be insulting but....Wah!
The Soviet navy? Are you freaking kidding me?

The Soviets had 4 years of war in the West and never used their navy; what makes you think they would have used what little they had in the East? Plus, with Soviet ships in the east having at best skeleton crews they were not going to effective at all and they probably should all start with 25 sys damage and not be able to get better than that.

Seriously, what real country uses a drafted short term navy?

Mike

[Tankerace]

The US, at least until the War of 1812. [:D]

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

I don't want to be insulting but....Wah!
The Soviet navy? Are you freaking kidding me?

The Soviets had 4 years of war in the West and never used their navy; what makes you think they would have used what little they had in the East? Plus, with Soviet ships in the east having at best skeleton crews they were not going to effective at all and they probably should all start with 25 sys damage and not be able to get better than that.

Seriously, what real country uses a drafted short term navy?

Mike

Hey. Seeing as we have a fully mobile modern Japanese Army (bicycles are amazing weapons!) capable of defeating modern mechanized armies in defensive positions...WTF?[:D] And now they can equip squadrons a year ahead of time with aircraft their industry was incapable of manufacturing...2xWTF?

[Don Bowen]

Hi Ron

[Ron Saueracker]

Wow! Great stuff. Finding Canadian mercantile info is not easy. Where did you get this?[:)]

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Wow! Great stuff. Finding Canadian mercantile info is not easy. Where did you get this?[:)]

http://fortships.tripod.com/

Not much data out there on these ships. This site has loss data (a few in the Pacific and Indian Ocean) and construction information. I "assumed" that some of those built on the West Coast would serve in the Pacific.

Does anyone have any data on the Canadian World War ONE building program??

[CobraAus]

incase do do not pick up this ref check out this site supplied by Benway 9 in the warroom
its just what the doctor ordered OOB info tones of it all nations

http://www.niehorster.orbat.com/index.htm

[Philbass]

Don,

I've just sent the details for the British AR, AS and AD to your e-mail.

For everyone else, here is a list of those types I suggest should be added:

Resource AR
Wayland AR
Alaunia AR
Artifex AR
Ausonia AR
Ranpura AR
Assistance AR
Diligence AR
Mullian Cove AR
Dullisk Cove AR

Lucia AS
Wuchang AS
Maidstone AS
Adamant AS
Wolfe AS

Monclare AD
Woolwich AD
Tyne AD

I'm off to sulk (just lost rugby and cricket) and do the stats for the AOs and the AEs plus 2 15inch gun monitors.

Regards,

Phil Bass

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Philbass

Don,

I've just sent the details for the British AR, AS and AD to your e-mail.

For everyone else, here is a list of those types I suggest should be added:

Resource AR
Wayland AR
Alaunia AR
Artifex AR
Ausonia AR
Ranpura AR
Assistance AR
Diligence AR
Mullian Cove AR
Dullisk Cove AR

Lucia AS
Wuchang AS
Maidstone AS
Adamant AS
Wolfe AS

Monclare AD
Woolwich AD
Tyne AD

Tnanks - will get them in right away. We already had a few, glad to get the rest.

I'm off to sulk (just lost rugby and cricket) and do the stats for the AOs and the AEs plus 2 15inch gun monitors.

Regards,

Phil Bass

Great! Really looking forward to those RN replenishment ships. Hope you can find arrival times too. For the monitors, does anyone want to work up an icon for Abercrombie and Roberts????

[Philbass]

Okay.

Here is my version of the Monitors which would have arrived in the Indian Ocean in September 1945 (they left Suez in mid August 1945).

I have guestimated several values (endurance, light AA load out, durability) and if anyone has the 'definitive' source: Buxton I L (1978) Big Gun Monitors (??:Tynemouth, England) then feel free to correct this. Red text = guestimate.

I am surprised (or am I) that Matrix just modelled armour based on maximum sizes. Are torpedo bulges modelled into the 'Durability' rating? I assume that they aren't in the 'Belt Armour' Factor. Also, the type of armour (not just size) was important. It has been argued (Brown, D K (2000) Nelson to Vanguard: Warship Development 1923-1945 (London: Conway) p24) that:

...the armour of the King George V and later ships being about 25 per cent more effective than First World War armour. German developments were similar as shown by post-war tests on plates removed from the Tirpitz. The USN failed to achieve similar advances, and the armour of their Second World War ships was no better than those of the earlier war.

Looking at the King George V Class deck armour therefore could be 180-190 (vice 159 in the database) for Deck Armour, 430 (vice 360 in the database) and 133 (vice 108 in the database) for the Tower Armour. Only a thought, some real 'armour head' needs to think about this perhaps...

Of course, if I was to mess with the KGV then the endurance needs to be taken down from 15000. A realistic assessment would be:

... 6000 miles at 10kts or 5000kts at 20kts with 3770 tons of oil. (The small differnce between these these figures reflects the very heavy consumption of the auxiliary machinery.) In 1942 the USS Washington was operating with the Home Fleet and Admiral Tovey reported her fuel consumption was 39 per cent less than King George V at lower speeds and still superior at higher speeds which with a fuel stowage gave the US ship double the endurance of the British battleship.
Source: Brown, D K (200) p33

Also it may be overestimating RN warships by giving them the US Damage Control Advantage. The argument goes that the RN arrangement of boilers and engine rooms was inferior to the US at least until the late war cruisers and the post-war 'Weapon and 'Daring' destroyer classes. The RN ships were in greater danger of losing all power (as happen to HMS Warspite at Salerno). In addition, the small RN cruisers, particularly the 'Didos' were vulnerable to capsize due to outboard wing compartments that if hit by torpedo, " two or probably three main compartments would be flooded greatly reducing the stability so that the asymmetric buoyancy of the other wing compartment would cause a very large heel and , in all probability, capsize the ship". Source: Brown, D K (2000) p73. Also, a damage control school was only set up post the loss of HMSArk Royal(Nov 1941) and there was a lack of fire-fighting equipment, small pumps and alternative power sources. But perhaps by late-war it was much better, so it all comes out in the wash.

Any thoughts??

Regards,

Phil Bass

[CobraAus]

does anyone want to work up an icon for Abercrombie and Roberts????

here it is

Cobra Aus