A Look?

[Marines]

http://www.war-forums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21586

Hardcore wargamers...take a look.

[Adam Parker]

With respect, rather than cross-marketing visitors here to your comments on your forum it would be more beneficial to post your own fresh insights.

As a prospective buyer I'd also appreciate something more than "game over in 30 minutes".

Armchair General I am sure is doing a fine job but this forum piracy is unhelpful.

[Hertston]

I tend to agree. That thread adds nothing to what has been said on the FPG boards here, where rather more comment is available than at Warfare HQ (being the official boards, that's hardly surprising). WHQ is no more "hard-core" than any other wargames site.

As for Armchair General itself, its a very good read, but is there anyone here who doesn't know about it? Several recent Matrix release have had ACG previews, for a start.

[Marc von Martial]

Why only "hardcore wargamers"? I allways thought Armchair General was for everybody [;)]

[Mike_w]

No, only "cool kids"[8D][;)]

[Marc von Martial]

Actually some of the comments or statements in this very thread remind of some hardcore "cool kids" First Person Shooter forums [;)][:'(]. You know, those forums for hardcore fraggers only [:D][:'(]

Honestly, Armchair General has an extremly good potential to attract not only those "hardcore wargamer" guys. I allways thought they call themselves "grognards", or is this simply the modern times kicking in here, hehe.


on a sidenote:
I wonder why Eric didn´t simply write our support with his download problems, most of them are easily handled by clearing the Windows download cache, which is the culprit in 90% of these cases.

[Marines]

I have been following the development of this sim for a long time. That being said, I was expecting a lot more when it came to depth and the immersion. I play Fulda Gap '85 and North German Plain '85 on a regular basis, perhaps I was expecting something along the same lines of those two games. Now, I don't want to appear like a provocateur, too late maybe? However, I was hoping to see a war game that would pull me in and keep me interested, FG has not done that.

I know you guys (devs etc.) are committed to this game and that is my sole reason for hanging on to it. I hope that you guys will continue to work on it and upgrade it in the future.

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: Marines

... I play Fulda Gap '85 and North German Plain '85 on a regular basis, perhaps I was expecting something along the same lines of those two games. Now, I don't want to appear like a provocateur, too late maybe?...

Marines, unsure if you know but I had the slightest of hands to do with NGP '85 (the Started Manual and the side/bottom screen art etc).

I don't think it's provocative at all to state your perceptions of Flashpoint Germany. In fact, it's for this feedback that I'm visiting here.

I just didn't think your cross to the other forum was appropriate. It would have been more polite imho to have summarized that thread refering to it as "another place" and then have posted some longer thoughts of your own which I'd stil like to see.

Where in your opinion is Flashpoint Germany exactly falling short? What are its strengths? It's obviously a smaller scale to the HPS Modern Campaign series in terms of unit breadth, command control and map size. So I would either expect some more micromanagement which we know FPG's designer didn't want - or at the other extreme, some more abstraction which seems to be the case. Airpower appears to be handled fairly similarly between the HPS and SimCan designs.

I've been playing NGP '85 this weekend and have been stuck on a draw in one of the medium scens as NATO vs AI. I've been using my helo's poorly I'd say.

One difference that I seem to have picked up between the two designs is that whilst in both, Electronic Warfare can detect the presence of HQ's - in FPG, destroying HQ's seems to be of far more importance due to its scale. From feedback on this forum, it seems that a known HQ in FPG quickly becomes a magnet for artillery. In Modern Campaigns I find it much more urgent to locate and destroy the enemy's artillery itself.

Also in Modern Campaigns the AI will deploy its arty-deliverable mines and chemicals. It seems that the patch due soon for FPG will address this issue in that game. Of course, the biggest fix needed for FPG it seems, is having the AI employ its helo assets. No title will be without its quirks but I'd sure expect the enemy to employ its helos against me - and more effectively than I've done this weekend in the other game!

Now I must add the caveat that these are just perceptions of mine based on feedback from this forum. I'm deciding whether to buy this game. So rather than a desire to drawn any conclusions on FPG's suitablity for me just yet, I'd like to hear much more feedback from people actually playing the game. Any new AAR's vs the AI would be appreciated too.

Adam.

[TheHellPatrol]

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck
Honestly, Armchair General has an extremly good potential to attract not only those "hardcore wargamer" guys. I allways thought they call themselves "grognards", or is this simply the modern times kicking in here, hehe.

[:D]...
Dude #1: "Hey dude, i wanna start this totally awesome wargame website for grognards only!
Dude #2: What's a grognard dude?
Dude #1: Wow man, i dunno, i saw it on the web dude.
Dude #2: I know dude, how 'bout we call it "hardcore" dude? Like the "movie"[;)] Way cool dude.
Dude #1: Hardcore Wargamer...Rock on bro, we rock! Now lets go review a "wargame" dude.
Dude #2: Yeah bro, like a "war" game...righteous!

[Mike_w]

I don't know, seems to me FPG is what it is....
Its not going to be at the Command and Staff College...but it is fun

(Soft music plays in the background)
Before FPG, I never really played any TBS strategy games with the exception of Combat Mission. FPG got me hooked on this genre. Recently, I tried a demo of "Raging Tiger" and loved it. Unfortuantely, I only had money for one more game so I purchased "Direct Action". Much more complicated to be sure (and more realistic?) but now I'm hooked and looking for more. FPG allows players like me to play these types of games and "learn" them without being intimidated by the details of a TAC OPS or Point of Attack 2. HAd I not found FPG, I likely never would have discovered how much I like deep turn based strategy.

By far, FPG is one of my favorite games...its just "fun" If you want a hardcore gaming experience, maybe you'll be disappointed, but it is certainly realistic and detailed enough to be challenging and entertaining for many players. Even the most "die hard grognard" will be satisfied by the sound of a neutralizing artillery barrage hitting home on a stack of armor...complete with puffs of smoke!

Although I'm not usually so satisfied because the stack usually belongs to me...[:@][:)]

[Marines]

Indeed Adam. However, why my observations from another forum is considered 'cross' and or a form of bashing is beyond me. Critiques of a game, especially if someone is dissatisfied thus far decides to make their opinions known...they come off as rude, ignorant or being involved in a marketing campaign to disuage others from purchasing it. Now that is stupidity and nothing less then a one sided bashing of those who would disagree. If you decide to purchase FG you will not have the same experience as with FG '85 and NGP '85, but then again its a totally different game by design.

So, I would say go ahead a buy it. Form your own opinion.

[Jarhead0331]

I don't think he posted the link to "cross-market"...I think he was just too lazy to re-type the same crap over again on another forum...

Coming from a Marine, I'm not sure what's worse? Devious "cross-marketing", or laziness... [;)]

[Marines]

ORIGINAL: Jarhead0331

I don't think he posted the link to "cross-market"...I think he was just too lazy to re-type the same crap over again on another forum...

Coming from a Marine, I'm not sure what's worse? Devious "cross-marketing", or laziness... [;)]

[:D]

Semper Fidelis grunt! Crusty 'ol machine gunner.[;)]

0311 and now a 0811.

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: Marines

...Critiques of a game, especially if someone is dissatisfied thus far decides to make their opinions known...they come off as rude, ignorant or being involved in a marketing campaign to disuage others from purchasing it. Now that is stupidity...

Couldn't agree more. I rely on honest feedback to save me money now. I'm far past the years of buying a game because it's "new" or heaven-forbid, a two paragraph magazine "review" tells me its good [:)]

So once again, personally I value your genuine thoughts on this game pro or con, it was just the way the forum was hijacked that p'd me off. Too many people try to do this now - cross-post or "hey look at this" threads.

LOL. Jarhead you likely have it right.

[Jarhead0331]

Marines...

On a serious note, I know exactly what you mean about FPG...Ask anyone on these forums, and they will tell you that I raised a big stink about the lack of infantry units...especially the absence of USMC units in the OOB...

But I still purchased the game and there is a lot to like...I even met up with some other service members who feel my pain and played some nice PBEM games...its been fun...if you can shell out the cash, buy it...then look me up and let me kick your Artillery lovin' ass in a PBEM game... [:D]

Semper Fi

[Black Cat]

Making Value Judgements by comparing FG to the two large HPS Operational Level Games just doesn`t seem reasonable to me.

I don`t know why, it just doesn`t, maybe someone smarter then me knows......

[Marines]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

ORIGINAL: Marines

...Critiques of a game, especially if someone is dissatisfied thus far decides to make their opinions known...they come off as rude, ignorant or being involved in a marketing campaign to disuage others from purchasing it. Now that is stupidity...

Couldn't agree more. I rely on honest feedback to save me money now. I'm far past the years of buying a game because it's "new" or heaven-forbid, a two paragraph magazine "review" tells me its good [:)]

So once again, personally I value your genuine thoughts on this game pro or con, it was just the way the forum was hijacked that p'd me off. Too many people try to do this now - cross-post or "hey look at this" threads.

LOL. Jarhead you likely have it right.

Agreed, I feel that far too many will jump on the 'band-wagon' in an attempt to villify those of us who are not a part of the whole. It's obvious that such a stance is ridiculous, beyond any type of normal discussion when it concerns the game. Those of you who did jump at the opportunity to attack me should be ashamed. Your arguments are thus null and void.

[Marines]

ORIGINAL: Jarhead0331

Marines...

On a serious note, I know exactly what you mean about FPG...Ask anyone on these forums, and they will tell you that I raised a big stink about the lack of infantry units...especially the absence of USMC units in the OOB...

But I still purchased the game and there is a lot to like...I even met up with some other service members who feel my pain and played some nice PBEM games...its been fun...if you can shell out the cash, buy it...then look me up and let me kick your Artillery lovin' ass in a PBEM game... [:D]

Semper Fi

I was highly angered that dismounted infantry does not play a role as well. However, I bought it as well even after seeing such remarks/reviews.

[Marines]

ORIGINAL: Black Cat

Making Value Judgements by comparing FG to the two large HPS Operational Level Games just doesn`t seem reasonable to me.

I don`t know why, it just doesn`t, maybe someone smarter then me knows......

What? Perhaps you should go and read what I posted before making such comments.

If you decide to purchase FG you will not have the same experience as with FG '85 and NGP '85, but then again its a totally different game by design.

[Black Cat]

You also said :

ORIGINAL: Marines

I have been following the development of this sim for a long time. That being said, I was expecting a lot more when it came to depth and the immersion. I play Fulda Gap '85 and North German Plain '85 on a regular basis, perhaps I was expecting something along the same lines of those two games. etc, etc.

Since you brought those 2 Games up I assumed you wanted folks to make a comparison. But you know, it`s no big deal, since in some ways I share your disappointments with FG, and it`s not my intention to start an argument over it.

I, like Adam, would be sincerely interested in what you see as the good points in FG, and what needs to be improved.[;)]