Kobayashi Maru

[Gen.Hoepner]

In my courrent PBEM game i had my KB engaged by a TF of 2 US CAs and 4 DDs east of Nanoumea Atoll in March 42. They got creamed by my BBs in the KB, but managed to get 3 shells on one of my Carrier and she had to stay at Dockyard for 3 months......

[Sneer]

I noticed this feature in UV and later in Witp
Tests show you can target CVs only in first round of battle, later it's classic surface combat with escorts.
So either you cripple CVs in first salvos or you will be lost during next day air phase.

I used Marianes scenario to test and used all combined fleet to attack in night TF38
4 surface Tfs vs 4 air combat Tfs on same hex
result
1 CV sunk 1 heavy and 3-4 slightly damaged
some AA cruisers were also badly hit but it is not a point

huge risk , huge fleet , low outcome
good player would regroup and wipe out japs from remaining CVs

[Dunedain]

If we had mid-ocean surface combat TF intercepts possible, then it would be much easier to attempt
to take on the carriers in a direct battle...

Carriers are nothing but fat pathetic targets for cruisers and battleships, and they should
suffer greatly if such ships open up on them.

[tsimmonds]

But IRL it only ever happened by accident. It should be very difficult if not impossible to make it take place according to some plan (unless the CV driver does something very foolish indeed). In game, if you can figure out where he is going to be, it is not so difficult to have ships there waiting for him. And if you don't really know where he is going to be, well, then, it doesn't really make much sense that you should be able to intercept him on his way there....

[EUBanana]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Just having discovered this thread, i'll though in my 2 cents worth.

I decided to try to lure the KB into a trap off Balikpapan early in the war. I had PoW, Repulse, Houston and scads of light cruisers and DDs in port at Balikpapan with the KB and mini-KB really close nearby. I sacrificed 3 DDs, and sure enough, the KB came and cuddled up 1 hex out of Balikpapan and launched a massive strike, sinking my sacrificial lambs.

My fleet then formed and charged out a top speed - and somehow managed to intercept the mini-KB instead. Not sure how this came about. Anyway, here are 2 British radar equipped capital ships with heavy support, intercepting a carrier and a couple of CAs at 5000 yards at night, achieving surprise when they opened on the carrier with the first salvo. And THE BRITS (and company) GOT BEAT!!! After the first salvo, the British heavies shifted to the CAs - the CVL got away unscathed, the IJN CAs creamed Houston, and didn't suffer any penetrating hits.

I had a similar encounter in another game (different situation, but similar fleets) - and the Brits and co. got beat in that one, too.

To paraphrase Churchill on Singapore, a defeat can be explained, a disgrace cannot...

[rtrapasso]

To paraphrase Churchill on Singapore, a defeat can be explained, a disgrace cannot...

Yeah - i wanted to cashier Philips on that one - i think he was in command in the first game. Problem was, i couldn't find anyone better to take command. In the second game, i knew better, so put in my best available commander - and got almost identical results. [:(]

[Dunedain]

irrelevant: You often don't know where enemy carriers are going to go exactly (destination hex),
but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to patrol with your surface combat TF through a route
of likely advance of the enemy carriers (or any other TF) and try to intercept them if you are
passing through the same hex at the same time.

And this is going to be even more important in the upcoming WPO add-on to WitP, where naval engagements
between battle lines are at the very heart of the war effort and will be the decisive factor.

[tsimmonds]

You often don't know where enemy carriers are going to go exactly (destination hex),

you are correct, one doesn't know, and this fact alone should make a mid-ocean interception nearly impossible to achieve

but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to patrol with your surface combat TF through a route of likely advance of the enemy carriers (or any other TF) and try to intercept them if you are
passing through the same hex at the same time.

I agree with this. SCTF should be able to patrol similar to submarines. But a CVTF is unlikely to pass through a hex where you are likely to be on patrol.

[Dunedain]

Well, that's up to the player with the surface combat TF's to patrol in those "unlikely" areas.

And, of course, the chances of mid-ocean intercepts on enemy surface combat TF's is much higher,
since you can better estimate which places they might go.

[mc3744]

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

In my courrent PBEM game i had my KB engaged by a TF of 2 US CAs and 4 DDs east of Nanoumea Atoll in March 42. They got creamed by my BBs in the KB, but managed to get 3 shells on one of my Carrier and she had to stay at Dockyard for 3 months......

Is that our game? I don't remeber.

[byron13]

ORIGINAL: Gem35

ok, in my current game against the hated Jap AI, KB is steaming northwest past Darwin . Frustration is pretty much maxed here (mid march42 btw). As I have been saving after each turn, I am pretty much fed up with the AI at this point. Koepang has been my major naval base for the entire RN and a host of US and Oz cruisers and DD's, 35 or so warships total. KB comes to within 5 hexes of koepang. I'm thinking Pearl Harbor all over again but this time we see em coming. As I have saved the turns I go back and send a monster Tf to where KB was spotted. ( I know I am cheating but I want to see just for fun what would happen) KB hits my TF 5 BB's and 10 CA's, just scratching the POW and sinking the Repulse. After the air ops are done I am thinking KB is doomed. Nothing happens and turn ends without a naval battle. I reload the turn and send 4 smaller Tf's to same hex and KB shows up one hex away in different Location, I reload the turn and send 2 sets of 3 Tf's to the original hex and the 'new' hex KB showed up at. Different results here, KB hits 2 of the 3 TF's in the same hex that it sits in and one TF from the hex with the other 3 TF's. Still , no ensuing battle. It's pretty much safe to say you cannot engage carriers with anything but an airplane or lucky sub attack. so, yea.....Kobayashi Maru [:@][:@][:@] pretty lame if you ask me...

I wouldn't sweat it, Gem. The Japanese AI is looking to invest Koepang, and it will send KB frolicking between Timor and Australia several times. Your best defense - if you want to fight for Koepang - is to build it and the base on the far eastern end of Timor up as much as possible to hold LBA. Also, build up Darwin and Derby with LBA. While KB is pretty smart about not getting within range of Oz, if you can pack enough on to Timor, you will eventually wear down KB and get some hits. During the battle, keep feeding Timor with replacement a/c. When KB withdraws, you can clean up your mess and await the next trip. With a U.S. fighter group or two and a medium bomber group or two in addition to the RAAF units, you will eventually wear down KB. After its worn down, you might consider a carrier v. carrier battle or, even sneakier, sending all the Dauntlesses, Devestators, and Wildcats from a couple of carriers up into the area. He can't sink Timor, but if you can get a couple of his carriers to 50% of System damage so they can't fly CAP, then the situation totally changes, and you can sink a couple of his carriers.

Be advised, though, that the AI is pretty stubborn about attacking Timor and using KB to run the gap between Timor and Oz. You have the ability to eventually cream not only KB but a lot of combat ships as well in this long battle. You may want to consider just how much you will take advantage of the AI's stubborness. In effect, you may be able to largely dispose of KB by June of '42. Do you really want that?

[wild_Willie2]

The problem with the AI is, it is TO easy to cream the KB. I do not even engage the AI controlled KB anymore with LBA's, just because theigh WILL GET TROUGH and damage or even sink large a portion of the KB. If this happens your game against the AI is finished arround 1942/43..... and this is on VERY HARD............ This happens because the AI just does't launch airfield attacks at your LBA and fighter packed airfields.......

[Gem35]

well, the problem seems to be I need more cap and more escorts for the bombers to fly, Koepang is built to max with half a mil supply and 250 beauforts forts and hudsons but only a scant dutch fighters, most of my fighters were busy covering troop landings to Rabaul in order to kill off that jap invasion force. Now that rabaul has held , I can send the fighters over to help cover for KB's demise ...I hope. Or roll the dice and send my 5 carriers over to play. But, knowing my luck, I'l have that bill shattner face on after KB whips me.