Digital Download before Store Release

[Mr.Frag]

"Dangerous Waters", complete with disks and 570 page manual on my doormat 2 days after release after paying local postage only.

One problem with DW ... that of all sub sims ... 100 hours of total boredom punctuated by a couple minutes of sheer terror ... its the nature of the game, doesn't make it good or bad ... just makes it reality ...

Same problem with very detailed flight sims, take off and landing are real work, getting between the two makes you reach for the time compression key.

[Becket]

ORIGINAL: Hertston

What's your point?

What's yours? Your original post seemed to say that Matrix was screwing you for not telling you that Euro stores would have it the same day, and thus they should have told you that they'd ship to you directly. You used the example of Battlefront shipping directly to you as an example. I merely pointed out that Battlefront has not always shipped directly to Euro customers and there is no guarantee that they will in the future.

In sum: Matrix stated that (a) the game will be available in a box at retail or via Digital Download, and (b) it will be available to Euros via retail and Digital Download.

From the response you'd think they'd just flung feces at the most reverant mothers of the posters here. One guy complains because he can't have the DD today. You complain that while you can have the DD the same day as everyone else, no one has told you yet that you'll get retail the same day. Sheesh.

Anyway, it's a great game. In my opinion, they have a huge hit on their hands outside of the grog market.

[Bodhi]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

"Dangerous Waters", complete with disks and 570 page manual on my doormat 2 days after release after paying local postage only.

One problem with DW ... that of all sub sims ... 100 hours of total boredom punctuated by a couple minutes of sheer terror ... its the nature of the game, doesn't make it good or bad ... just makes it reality ...

Same problem with very detailed flight sims, take off and landing are real work, getting between the two makes you reach for the time compression key.

Although I would tend to agree with you on the nature of sub sims, I can't see how it's related to the current discussion on game distribution. [&:]

[Mr.Frag]

ORIGINAL: Bodhi

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

"Dangerous Waters", complete with disks and 570 page manual on my doormat 2 days after release after paying local postage only.

One problem with DW ... that of all sub sims ... 100 hours of total boredom punctuated by a couple minutes of sheer terror ... its the nature of the game, doesn't make it good or bad ... just makes it reality ...

Same problem with very detailed flight sims, take off and landing are real work, getting between the two makes you reach for the time compression key.

Although I would tend to agree with you on the nature of sub sims, I can't see how it's related to the current discussion on game distribution. [&:]

It's not apart from the comment from someone that they would go buy it instead of waiting a couple of days. Instant gratification now vs a game you'll be playing for years. Sometimes it pays to wait for the goods instead of buying something else just because you can. [;)]

[Kung Karl]

I think that there is no need to argue over the release date. We asked if there was going to be an earlier DD and they answered no. Ok then, we just have to wait. No problem at all as I see it.

Matroix, I hope you take the critic from some perssons as an indication that they just want the game so badly there minds get clouded. [;)]

[Scott_WAR]

LOL, no its not as big a deal as some are making it. The only reason I made my post to begin with was because Matrix is going against their normal procedure, and I question the motives for that. But we all know its about money, which is something that scares me. Matrix is a great company because they have been about the game MORE than the money. When they start showing that money, and retail outlets are more important than their customers and more imprtant thatn they way they have done things in the past, I am sorry, I think there is need for concern.

Whether we get the game in 2 days or 2 weeks is irrelevant, IF Matrix is starting to care more about retail stores and the allmighty dollar over thier customers, THEN that is NOT irrelevant.

[coregames]

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

...we all know its about money, which is something that scares me. Matrix is a great company because they have been about the game MORE than the money.

Being about the money to some extent is important for the games themselves, since a company must remain solvent in order to continue supporting these cool products. I don't think Matrix is on the road to not caring about the games, nor do I think they don't care about customers, and if they start not caring about either then customers will become alienated and the money will dry up anyway. So we can relax and be comforted by the idea that caring about games and customers are the best ways for them to make money in this field.

[Scott_WAR]

Oh do not take me wrong. Matrix is one of the BEST games for making wargames.....period. I just want it to stay that way.

Too many companies, just like Matrix, have been put out of business by trying to focus on the "mainstream" gamer, end up not making anybody happy, and end up out of business, or bought up by a large corporation (Hasblo anyone? EA?) and the quality of their games goes down the toilet.


Thats my point. I am trying to point out that what Matrix is doing has been done by small, great companies before, and all of those companies now are either out of business, or are churning out crap games.

I dont want this to happen to Matrix. If I sit back and say nothing I would feel as if I didnt try and warn them. I have played wargames for over 20 years, I have seen many good companies that made wargames come and go, and its always the same, they do EXACTLY what Matrix is starting to show with WAW, and try to cater to the "retail" market, instead of the people that got them where they were in the first place. They end up losing their loyal fan base, becasue they stop doing the things those players want, to make the game more "retail" friendly, then find out the hard way, the "retail" market is not a good market for wargames, dont break even on a few games, find themselves overextended financially, and is soon out of busuness.

I understand, making the game a "retail" release, is not "catering" to the retail market, if the game is still what we come to expcet from Matrix, but it IS the first step. The first step down the WRONG road.



EDIT- But it does not matter for now. This is just advice from a long time wargamer who does not want to see one of the last remaining sources of quality wargames lose their way. As long as Matrix keeps doing what they have BEEN doing I will always be a faithful supporter/customer.

[Paul Vebber]

HOw manytimes does it need to be said that the retail distribution of GGWaW is a SPECIAL CASE for what we hope is a "cross-over" product that will hopefully attract people to wargaming titles that otherwise wouldn't come here to our site.

ONE GAME out of half dozen recently released, or coming soon is hardly "trying to FOCUS on the "mainstream" gamer!

We have pretty much abaondoned the "heavy retail" market for our "hardcore" wargame titles becasue for those games, it didn't work well.

We have no intention of going BACK to that "focus" so you should feel confident no "warnigns" are needed. We been there, done that, didn't even get a T-shirt...

we started with direct by mail distribution. We did OK and decided to test teh retail waters. We did pretty good, but there were some major limitations with, despite attempts to limit it, our games winding up int eh bargain bin where we get nothing and us trying to sell for "full price" direct. You ge an initial surge of sales, but over time its overall return is questionable. THAT is wy we have abandoned the retail chaoons for digital downloads and hobby speciality shops (where the chances of large numbers of "bargain bin" ringers soaking off 'paying sales' is much lower.

That said, there are some titles that we think have a chance to be a success in the rtail market, and at teh least keep at least a PRESENCE in the retail chains for a few Matrix products to try to attract more to the "harder core" titles.

You suggest that this turn to retail is a "turn down the "wrong road". You seem to not have been around for our excursion DOWN THAT VERY ROAD with mixed results. WHy would we suddenly go BACK to what we already dabbled in and found wanting?

We understand the concern, but want to make sure those of you new to us, that we have been through a lot of trials and tribulations in the last 5 years bootsrapping ourselves from giving away free mods of other peoples games, to offering more wargames - from more eras and a greate complexity range than any other publisher out there!

WE appreciated advice, but we are not as new o this as it might seem, and what we have found is that a "mixed strategy" in game theory terms is required to maximize ease of sale, customer satisfaction, and return on investment - a strategy that heavily emphasizes online sales - both digital downloads and physical boxes. Works with small specialty shops - in particular overseas, AND for potential crossover products (and THEM ONLY) a broader retail penetration.

Thanks for your concern! But hang around and I think you will see we have a pretty good plan, and best of all we keep tweaking it as we go to ensure it stays on top of things!

[Scott_WAR]

ORIGINAL: Paul Vebber


We have no intention of going BACK to that "focus" so you should feel confident no "warnigns" are needed. We been there, done that, didn't even get a T-shirt...

------AND------

You suggest that this turn to retail is a "turn down the "wrong road". You seem to not have been around for our excursion DOWN THAT VERY ROAD with mixed results. WHy would we suddenly go BACK to what we already dabbled in and found wanting?

ROFL, When or with what game/s was this. I must have not been interested in the game or games and missed it. Either way, I am am very happy you have actual experience with the trap I am talking about, and even better SURVIVED it. Good job. That makes me feel much better knowing you understand 100% what I am talking about.

Thanks for the in depth explanation.

[Paul Vebber]

Have you looked at the line of games we have? We went with six titles titles to heavy retail:

What we thought might be good "crossover" games in Starships Unlimited: Divided Galaxies, Titans of Stea: Warring Suns and Massive Assault (which has now gone to online play) and solid wargame titles Uncommon Valor, Korun Pocket, and Highway to the Reich - all three getting RAVE reviews, but having gone rapidly to the bargain bins many palces, only now becoming "rare" again.

Funny to some I guess...glad we could calm your fears [8D]

[Arckon]

I think the very last thing Matrix are doing is not caring about there customers, actually exactly the opposite. They must look at the best possible marketing and ways to bring money into there coffers.
Customers who only have dialup and can not use digital download ( or use easily )may feel hard done by if released this way before stores, especially for a more higher profile game in Matrix's portfolio.
I prefer digital download but are more than happy to wait for simultaneous release.

[ravinhood]

No digital download before store release. Booooooo. I cant believe Matrix is actually getting away from what their customers want and have come to expect

I don't know what boat you flew in on, but, I sure don't "want" or "expect" digital download for every game. I don't like digital download and never will. So speak for "yourself" and leave the "customer with an S out of it please, thank you.

[David Heath]

Oh please do not start that....[8|] Look Matrix is a company that works with its developers. We plan to release some titles we feel are more geared to be retail friendly this way. This is pretty much what everyone could agree to.

David

[ravinhood]

COMBAT LEADER should definitely be another one of those "retail" games as well.

[Marc von Martial]

A "few days" if you live in the US maybe. For us Euros there's no sign, and with no download option that means no sale in my case - HoI2 it is.

Huge Matrix fan as I am I can't help but compare this with Battlefront's latest offering. "Dangerous Waters", complete with disks and 570 page manual on my doormat 2 days after release after paying local postage only. As a gamer THAT'S what I want to see... that or prompt digital download.

If people would actualy read announcements properly there would be much less confusion going on [:'(][;)]. Even when the DD option was not clear yet Erik sayed that you will be able to order the standard retail box directly from us. Since we ship directly from Europe for our european customers (check out our store) there is no sense in saying you have to pass on the game just because you´r in Europe. I sit right in the middle of Europe for example [:'(]

[bach28]

I just can't understand why you didn't tell your customers that the game wouldn't be a DD. I'm sure you all knew before it went gold and I'm sure you knew that most people thought there would be a DD before release to stores.

So why didn't you tell us till now?

[TheHellPatrol]

ORIGINAL: bach28

I just can't understand why you didn't tell your customers that the game wouldn't be a DD. I'm sure you all knew before it went gold and I'm sure you knew that most people thought there would be a DD before release to stores.

So why didn't you tell us till now?

[8|]Read the FAQ entitled: Digital Download and Retail Release Info, it's at the very top of the forum. If you read more carefully you'll find the posts above say nothing of that sort[:-][:)].

[Paul Vebber]

We could have just not said the game has gone gold until the day before it was to be released in stores.

One can never predict the fickleness with which information can be received by some.

Why do companies like Microsoft and EA and publisheers of widely anticipated books like Harry Potter go to enormous lengths to coordinate a common realese date for new products?

[bach28]

Well I looked at Faq but it was posted on 2/28/2005 8:45:55 PM. I sure they knew before then and if you think not your blind.

As far as Microsoft and EA issues I wouldn't even consider you all in the same league as them. They sell 500 thousand of a game (Battlefields 1942) and that’s why, Quote {they go to enormous lengths to coordinate a common release date for new products}