AI?... What AI?!?...

Korsun Pocket is a the second game using the award winning SSG Decisive Battles game engine. Korsun Pocket recreates the desperate German attempt to escape encirclement on the Russian Front early in 1944. The battle is a tense and exciting struggle, with neither side having a decisive advantage, as the Russians struggle to form the pocket, then try to resist successive German rescue efforts and last ditch attempts at breakout.
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Stormbinder
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:00 pm

AI?... What AI?!?...

Post by Stormbinder »

Greetings.

I am new KP player although I am a veteran wargamer (have been playing these games for 20 years). For the last year or so I've been reading raving reviews of KP, but I deliberately stayed away from it, since I hardly have enough time to afford yet another game addiction. :)

Last week though I finally purchased it and spend few days playing with it. The impression is very mixed one.

I liked a lot of things about this game. The game engine is simple yet elegant. I like the game system, it is very flexible, and the UI is quite good as well. I could feel that a lot of efforts were put into making this game historically accurate. Numerous reviews seem to be true, right?

WRONG!

Guys, what's up with brain-dead AI?!? [:(][:@][&:]

I mean each and every review that I have read praised great and powerful AI in this game, how tough and cunning it is, how it has handed the reviewer his arse on the plate, et cetera... [&:]

Here is my experience with it. I have installed 1.10 patch, played through tutorials, read the manual and jumped into 2 short 12 turns scenarios (1st and 2nd fronts) as Germans (I always love to play as an underdog for more challenge, and based upon reading historical background I figured out that Germans supposed to be in the really tight spot there).

To my big surprise both times I've crashed AI completely, by wide margin! (on normal AI settings). [X(]

I mean - I am completely new to the seria, I have made tons of mistakes since these are my first two games. I am NOT supposed to win, at least not that easy, against "tough and powerful AI opponent". WTH?!? [&:]

And before somebody say - "Hey dude, you kick ass!" - it is not the matter of me being the genius wargamer. [:(]

To make sure of it, I did 3 experiments. I've played as a German through 3 KP scenarios (2x12 turns, 1x 24 turns) on normal AI settings without moving a single unit! The results? In two 12 turns scenario the soviet AI barely managed to make a Draw![:@]

And in 24 turns scenario, I have won a Marginal victory, without even lifting a finger. Duh![:(]

Let me put it this way - in my 20 years of wargaming I have never been in the situation where I could beat the normal AI (which is supposed to be very good, based upon reviews) by doing NOTHING.

After playing this game now I know what was the worst German mistake in 1944 Korsun operation. Pocket relief my arse! They should just sit tight on their arses and not move anywhere. The victory would fall on their laps! [X(] All their desperate attempts to relief the pocket managed to achieve were to snatch the Defeat from the jaws of Victory!

Silly Germans.

/sarcasm mode off

And it is not the matter of unbalanced Victory points/objectives distribution, or scenario balance. It is the AI. It is totally pathetic. in 24 turns it couldn't even break though mostly undefended strongholds! 99% of his forces were just running around mindlessly 2-3 hexes away from the frontline, instead of helping their comrades in any way. And 1% that did attack keep suffering losses and defeats against inferior troops, because AI just didn't concentrate enough firepower to kill def 3 or def 6 garrison in otherwise undefended strongpoint! All in all Russian AI has the ferocity, cunning and intelligence of a tamed 1 week old kitten in a bad neighborhood.


BAD SSG. VERY BAD!



<sigh> Sorry guys, I didn't mean to rant that much in my first post here, but I just very pissed and disappointed. Primary because I *really* tried to love this game. And it *does* have a lot of potential. But pathetic AI really kills it all IMO. [:(][:(][:(]


Yes, I know that I can play it in PBEM against humans. And I am sure it is 10 times more interesting this way, and can be challenging against good opponent. (isn't it the same with most of the strategic games?) But the thing is I bought this game mostly for single player experience, since based upon each and every review that I've read it supposed to be very exciting and challenging SP experience. I just don't have time for MP right now, since it requires much more time than SP. And man, was I mistaken!

And yes, I know I can handicap myself to the Stone Age or boost AI to heavens through the settings. Usually I would do it, but here - I am not sure. I mean - normal AI can't even beat me when I am doing nothing. By boosting very weak AI trough unfair advantages, wouldn't I end up fighting primary against myself and game mechanics instead of AI opponent? I am not sure that I am masochistic enough for it. >;(



Any comments? Suggestions?


Regards,
Stormbinder
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GreenDestiny
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:09 am
Location: Alamogordo NM

RE: AI?... What AI?!?...

Post by GreenDestiny »

It sounds A lot like Flashpoint Germany to me, sit around and do nothing and win a Victory. It's all 4 fun...HA..HA.[:@]

The AI in BiN ( Battles in Normandy) is better than KP( Korsun Pocket ) by a mile, and I don’t see why they just don’t upgrade KP's AI to a level of the one that BiN has.

I like both games system ( Flashpoint Germany, Korsun Pocket ) but The AI and the balance for the AI is just so poor that you can not really play these games in SP..

In these days you have to be very careful on wargames reviews.

BTW... A patch for Flashpoint Germany is suppose to come out soon to fix the AI.[:)]
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Adam Parker
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Location: Melbourne Australia

RE: AI?... What AI?!?...

Post by Adam Parker »

Green Destiny I actually agree with you on both counts except that I don't quite see enough player involvement in FlashPoint Germany to make a play sitting interesting patch or no patch. Forget direct combat, the AI even fires your own artillery most of the time!

Stormbinder, I respect SSG but whereas Battles In Normandy is a tremendously superior wargame, Korsun Pocket though "beautiful" in look for its time, IMHO just doesn't have the AI to match.

Adam.
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Fred98
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:00 am
Location: Wollondilly, Sydney

RE: AI?... What AI?!?...

Post by Fred98 »

ORIGINAL: GreenDestiny

and I don’t see why they just don’t upgrade KP's AI to a level of the one that BiN has.

My understanding is that it is a completetly new game engine and therefore not possible
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GreenDestiny
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:09 am
Location: Alamogordo NM

RE: AI?... What AI?!?...

Post by GreenDestiny »

I can understand that...but it would be nice if they could make the Korsun Pocket scenarios compatible with BiN. After all.... there’s already some others scenarios that you can download. Why not convert KP scenarios to BiN?

I’m not going to play KP again when I have BiN.
And why should I ?[&:]
Otto20000
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:45 pm
Location: TX

RE: AI?... What AI?!?...

Post by Otto20000 »

Yes the AI is BAD in Korsun but the design of the game is awesome. BIN's AI is so much better. They put TAO4 in BIN format surely they can put Korsun too and it really can't be that hard to do....I would think.
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