Soviet Motorized Divisions

[matt.buttsworth]

In Wir 1, 2 and 3 the soviet motorized divisions disappear in July 1941 never to reappear although in reality in recon vehicles etc they retain a motorized division shape.
Would it not be more realistic to make sure they convert back to Guards Motorized divisions in 1942 so they can serve in the tank armies which I believe historically they would have.
Also German motorized divisions ahve a unit of tanks (one wierd italian one has three). Given the massive numbers of Soviet tanks would not it be good to give the reappearing Soviet Guards Motorized Divisions a tank unit in 1942? Historically I am sure they would have been there.
Or better still give them one in 1941 to use up the two thousand or more spare t26s, as historically I am sure they would have and then just alter the wirhack system so they are never converted and remain motorized divisions throughout the game.

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by Matthew Buttsworth:
In Wir 1, 2 and 3 the soviet motorized divisions disappear in July 1941 never to reappear although in reality in recon vehicles etc they retain a motorized division shape.

What isn't shown in the "shape" of a division is its trucks, the backbone of a mobile unit. USSR didn't have enough to go around, so that and command/control issues lead to the motorized units disappearing. The same reasons are also behind the disappearance of the Tank Armies, which don't return until late '42.

then just alter the wirhack system so they are never converted and remain motorized divisions throughout the game.

As the creator of wirhack, this would be very difficult to do.

[matt.buttsworth]

agreed about the shortage of trucks but lend lease helped that out lots from 42 onwards.
Would it be possible then to get them to come back in the form of Guard mobile divisions with or without tank units.
Just a question. If it is not. it is not. The improvements anyway are marvellous.

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by Matthew Buttsworth:
Would it be possible then to get them to come back in the form of Guard mobile divisions with or without tank units.

It could be done, but the question is *should* it be done. Did this happen historically? Is there some source or evidence which shows the "motorized" units returning as mobile units later? I can't say much on this issue, so your job is to convince RickyB about those motorized Soviet units.

[matt.buttsworth]

will have to check that out as best I can.
I presume they did but the fact is I do not know. It would be a matter of checking out the order of battle of guards units and whether or not Guards motorized divisions existed. MRB

[RickyB]

Originally posted by Matthew Buttsworth:
will have to check that out as best I can.
I presume they did but the fact is I do not know. It would be a matter of checking out the order of battle of guards units and whether or not Guards motorized divisions existed. MRB

I don't believe that the Soviets had any motorized or mechanized divisions after dissolving them in 1941. They used Tank and Mechanized Corps which were built up of Tank and Motorized brigades, I believe, with the tank corps generally having 3 tank and 1 motorized brigades, and mechanized corps having 1 tank and 3 motorized. As the motorized brigades contained a tank unit, these mechanized corps are generally accepted as the key Soviet unit, containing the best mix of infantry and tanks for combined arms, while the tank corps, being very tank heavy, were great for breakthroughs but worse for holding the terrain captured.