ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
ORIGINAL: Mogami
Hi, Tell them the full story Ron. When you see Japanese ships in great number you don't move your submarines out of the way but instead congregate them in the area.
Ahhh...like was done historically? I can't believe what you just wrote, Russ! Subs were not this vulnerable. Subs were ordered into high traffic areas and against enemy warship TFs. Let's remember to base our comments on historical fact and not the WITP interpretation of this.
Anyone hear of the "Battle of Lingayan Gulf" from Dec 21-25, 1941? What can only be described as a massive Japanese naval presence was in Lingayan Gulf unloading the majority of the Japanese Army forces which captured Luzon. The Gulf is shallow and in addition to close escorts for the transports there were ASW TFs patrolling the entrance. No less than seven USN submarines were ordered to run the ASW gauntlet and penetrate the Gulf and attack the protected transports. All survived despite being repeatedly attacked by DCs and one, S-38, actually sank a confirmed transport. This is contrary to what you are saying players should be doing and the results are also contrary to what historically was the case.
Are you saying that submarines should avoid contact? How would Taiho, Shokaku, Atago, and Maya been sunk by USN submarines at Philippine Sea and Leyte Gulf if reality was the way WITP would have us believe and you would have players use their subs (avoiding contacts). How would the destruction of Wasp, Yorktown, Juneau, and the damage to North Carolina, Saratoga (twice), O'Brien etc have occurred if Japanese subs avoided contact with USN warship TFs? None of these Japanese subs were sunk after their attacks either, but I bet all would have been sunk in WITP.
C'mon, you can't defend the design here. It's just too far from the reality of the situation.
I believe you're right. To date as the Allied player I've lost just four subs, if I recall. I'll check. All of those have been to DC delivered by ASW groups formed for that purpose. Of course my boats won't attack anyone with that stupid Allied sub doctrine on, so I've mostly used them for transporting cadres out or just sailing around "out there' to "gain experience" (what, one point every month or so--and is that a joke) until they need a refit. I've about half my boats in repair yards getting their upgrades, the rest are trying to "stay out of trouble," which I'm convinced is the only reason I've suffered relatively few casualties to date.
I posted that attack by Whyalla for humor mostly, but in a way I think it confirms just how far off this model really is. Three hits on that poor unlucky I-boat, with a crew rating at that time of 36/23. Crazy.
Well, the game dictates a certain style of play, and for the game's sake that's fine, if corny. But historical? More like hysterical. [:D]
