More bugs

[Lorenzo from Spain]

War in Russia is, in my opinion, a great game. And, certainly, cheap. But, of course, there are some bugs:
- In West Front, are not necessary SS units. It́s the same if you place there any Pz division, Pz brigade, Pz battalion or even... any Jgpz battalion. A Jgpz battalion with Jgpz-1, is the same as an entire SS division?
- In Italy, don´t work the Pz battalions, but any motorized division with tanks.
- In the Caucasus, there are two places where the Germans units stop and cańt move any more. (I´ve experienced this in 1942 PEBM game) Hexes 71-62 (two hexes north of Baku) and 71-60. Yes, I know, all people says is not possible conquer Baku. But is possible. And then, imagine stop without any reason near Baku, without can attack or move.

[Mist]

Originally posted by Lorenzo from Spain:
- In West Front, are not necessary SS units. It́s the same if you place there any Pz division, Pz brigade, Pz battalion or even... any Jgpz battalion. A Jgpz battalion with Jgpz-1, is the same as an entire SS division?
- In Italy, don´t work the Pz battalions, but any motorized division with tanks.

Thanx Lorenzo! It can be because western/italian front formulas were changed. Personaly, I don't know them, but your notes can be helpfull. Got to check it.


- In the Caucasus, there are two places where the Germans units stop and cańt move any more. (I´ve experienced this in 1942 PEBM game) Hexes 71-62 (two hexes north of Baku) and 71-60. Yes, I know, all people says is not possible conquer Baku. But is possible. And then, imagine stop without any reason near Baku, without can attack or move.
This is already in buglist. At least one of these locations. BTW: it is possible to move from them, but plotting does not seem to be working. Thanx again!

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by Lorenzo from Spain:
- In the Caucasus, there are two places where the Germans units stop and can?t move any more. (I´ve experienced this in 1942 PEBM game) Hexes 71-62 (two hexes north of Baku) and 71-60.

Thanks, we knew about 71,62, but not the others. On the buglist.

As for the others, as far as I know the requirements for SS divisions in West Front and panzer divisions in the Italian Front have not changed.

[ July 09, 2001: Message edited by: Ed Cogburn ]

[RickyB]

I am not sure, but I think the only requirement for the West and Italian fronts is to maintain an overall strength level. The mix of forces required for this can vary, but I think Lorenzo may be right and the forces used don't matter, as long as they are strong enough.

Regarding the plotting problem along the east edge, it actually exists along the entire easternmost column, although on the even numbered rows the hex is basically off map. I tested scenarios with a German unit in various hexes on the east edge and none of them would carry out plots. This is probably a problem with the end of each row not being looked at - the same problem existed for supply effects and Arnaud fixed that one. great catch, Lorenzo.

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by RickyB:
I am not sure, but I think the only requirement for the West and Italian fronts is to maintain an overall strength level. The mix of forces required for this can vary, but I think Lorenzo may be right and the forces used don't matter, as long as they are strong enough.

Look in the manual, page 74, "Events Formulas". For the Western Front:

"If Axis Elite SS is less than (Year - 1940) then Axis strength is halved (including OKW)."

There is a similar rule for panzer divisions in the Italian Front, and Elite SS count as two panzer divisions there.

The thing is, since the game used to control when events happened, it relied totally on arriving units to provide the player with the SS/panzer units needed. The player could play without knowing of these requirements. Now that things have change, players must now monitor the forces in the Fronts, and take manual action to maintain the requirements.


As for the plot problems along the eastern map edge, its updated in the buglist. Thanks.

[ July 10, 2001: Message edited by: Ed Cogburn ]

[Lorenzo from Spain]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:
[QB]


Look in the manual, page 74, "Events Formulas". For the Western Front:

"If Axis Elite SS is less than (Year - 1940) then Axis strength is halved (including OKW)."

There is a similar rule for panzer divisions in the Italian Front, and Elite SS count as two panzer divisions there.

Ok, I know the rule. But in Front best, Pz batallion, Pz brigade, even Jzpz batallion, act as they where Pz SS.

You can test it easily, in 1942. Extract your Pz units except 2. Now extrac one more: the points halved. 3. Met one Jzpz batallion: the poin duplicates.

I think computer only controls "any unit with tanks"

[RickyB]

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:
Look in the manual, page 74, "Events Formulas". For the Western Front:

"If Axis Elite SS is less than (Year - 1940) then Axis strength is halved (including OKW)."

There is a similar rule for panzer divisions in the Italian Front, and Elite SS count as two panzer divisions there.
...[ July 10, 2001: Message edited by: Ed Cogburn ]

As with so many other things in the manual, this requirement as written in the manual is definitely not in place, as Lorenzo has commented on. Now I never realized that a requirement was in place but that any armored formation would fill it as he found. I rarely touch those fronts unless disaster hits them, but with Arnaud listing the strength you could see when removing units that a lack of SS divisions didn't seem to affect it, either in the strength listed or in the events that occured. Almost everything in the manual is at least slightly wrong, even in the pre-Matrix versions.

[matt.buttsworth]

Is it worth fixing - could be complicated - or just add a line to the text covering the next version of Wir to mention that the requirement does not exist so that everybody knows it.
The reason it does not exist is that in France 1941 there is no SS division and the strength is not halved. But if you take out the two armoured brigades the strength is halved immediately. I had not tested it with one, although Lorenzo no doubt has worked that out. Interesting. Very, very interesting.

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by Matthew Buttsworth:
Is it worth fixing - could be complicated - or just add a line to the text covering the next version of Wir to mention that the requirement does not exist so that everybody knows it.

Obviously, some beta testers aren't in the loop when it comes to changes in the game. We have to get Arnaud to do this, because he's the only one who knows the changes he made. He never said anything in the readme.txt file or the update files about this change.

About the SS in West Front. As I remember it, the original game effectively disabled the fronts for '41, which is what led to people emptying these fronts and using those forces elsewhere, only needing to return them in the last couple of weeks of '41. Because of this, the lack of an SS unit in the West Front wouldn't hurt you in the older game. It doesn't hurt you now because, as you've found out, Arnaud changed it and didn't tell anybody.

[ July 12, 2001: Message edited by: Ed Cogburn ]

[RickyB]

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:
Obviously, some beta testers aren't in the loop when it comes to changes in the game. We have to get Arnaud to do this, because he's the only one who knows the changes he made. He never said anything in the readme.txt file or the update files about this change.

About the SS in West Front. As I remember it, the original game effectively disabled the fronts for '41, which is what led to people emptying these fronts and using those forces elsewhere, only needing to return them in the last couple of weeks of '41. Because of this, the lack of an SS unit in the West Front wouldn't hurt you in the older game. It doesn't hurt you now because, as you've found out, Arnaud changed it and didn't tell anybody.

[ July 12, 2001: Message edited by: Ed Cogburn ]

Actually, Arnaud may not have changed it himself, but I could be wrong. When we were discussing the formula for shatter events, it seems as if he said that he didn't change anything else but the strength calculations and the automatic events, but I could be wrong.

[Svar]

Originally posted by RickyB:

Actually, Arnaud may not have changed it himself, but I could be wrong. When we were discussing the formula for shatter events, it seems as if he said that he didn't change anything else but the strength calculations and the automatic events, but I could be wrong.

Rick,

It is possible that Arnaud changed it inadvertantly. I think that the year multiplier has been disabled. I think that you still need 2 Panzer divisions in the West Front and 1 Panzer division in Italian Front but that never changes as the years progress. The formula once had a (194x-1940) multiplier in it so the requirement was multiplied by 1 in 1941, 2 in 1942, and so forth.

Svar

[RickyB]

Originally posted by Svar:
Rick,

It is possible that Arnaud changed it inadvertantly. I think that the year multiplier has been disabled. I think that you still need 2 Panzer divisions in the West Front and 1 Panzer division in Italian Front but that never changes as the years progress. The formula once had a (194x-1940) multiplier in it so the requirement was multiplied by 1 in 1941, 2 in 1942, and so forth.

Svar

That sounds reasonable, and is what I was trying to say, although I guess I didn't
. He could have forgotten too, since he has made so many changes that some do slip through I am sure.