CHS questions, comments & feedback

[jcjordan]

Just thought I'd go ahead & start this topic since Don didn't want them in the features topic. I do have 2 questions though, how is this going to be affected by 1.5 when it comes out & in looking at the Allied planesides it looks as though there are 2 Singapores - one just above the Kingfisher & one above the Walrus or are they 2 different planes? I've not installed the scen yet but have downloaded all the files & I'm just looking at the art files - so far excellent work!!!

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

Just thought I'd go ahead & start this topic since Don didn't want them in the features topic. I do have 2 questions though, how is this going to be affected by 1.5 when it comes out & in looking at the Allied planesides it looks as though there are 2 Singapores - one just above the Kingfisher & one above the Walrus or are they 2 different planes? I've not installed the scen yet but have downloaded all the files & I'm just looking at the art files - so far excellent work!!!

The second one (#137 - above the Walrus) is a Stranraer. As to effects of 1.5 - who knows? We'll see when 1.5 comes out.

[33Vyper]

[&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o] !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jwilkerson]

First test results in for Scenario 155 ... on the Andy Brown V3 with Extension.

I'm playing both sides so I can see everything and control everything.

Best news is - no crashes ( yet ) !

Subs still take about the same number of hits to ASW ... BUT ... the amount of damage received is very different ...

First IJN sub attacked ( in shallow water ) off Pearl by 4 DMS ASW force ... received 5 hits and sank ... not much difference on that one.

The second IJN sub attacked ( in deep water ) off Pearl by same force, next turn ... received 7 hits but had ZERO damage !? This must be a result of the "no damage" ship piece Nik added.

US S boat went into shallow water at Legaspi to fight the forces landing there ( hey this is a test ! ) ... first turn took 2 hits ... but was still afloat ... second turn took a third hit and sank ...

Other S boats have gone into Aparri and Vigan to contest landings ... have gotten no hits ... and received no hits ...

That's about it for the subs so far ( only played 3 turns ) ...

I noticed there are 2 Doug MacArthur's ... I know some of you may really like Douggie ( I don't ) but can't we just have one of him ? Like don't even have the SOWESPAC HQ come into the game until say 1 May 42 ... that gives Doug plenty of time to get out of the P.I. ( I also realize this "feature" might have been in the original ... but we don't have to reproduce the problems in the original .. CHS should take things to a new level ! ) ...

All the graphics seem to function so far.

Oh there is a cute gunboat battle going on a Shanghai ... I haven't moved anything in or out of there ... and left all the IJN ships at dock ... still at dock ... but the 2 to 1 fight hasn't resolved itself yet ... the boats fought a night action one night ... but neither side got any hits !

I'm manuvering a lot of forces around in China ... boy things will be different there ... though the CHinese look even weaker at Yenan.

Burma will also be very different with only the trails to get in ( but I was one of the people researching this one - so I'm on board to try it as Andy as presented it ... in essence I got what I asked for ... so let's see if it works ... historically the Japanese spent about a month walking up to the border around Moulemein ... not the "week" they spend in the "as delievered" version ... Rangoon will now be the primary LOC ( I hope ).

Darwin lost even its paltry 10 resource points from the previous version ! So that and no rail ... will surely remove the "Darwin Axis" from the primary Allied counterattack route ( so we got what we wanted here as well ).

East Coast Malaya got a trail, instead of a hi way ... so we got what we asked for here as well.

A lot of the "excess" supply that was laying around waiting to be captured has been significantly reduced.

I need to read up on what the new "advanced" engines do ... but I increased them up a bit as I assume they are needed ... also need to learn when Lily IIs come in .. since they seem to be getting produced from the get go ... I'm sure there is no documentation on these changes ( since Don clearly said there was no documentation period ! ) ... but I guess most of the answers will be in the game if I look for them ...

So far everything on the map looks right. More results to come after a few days of testing.

The crew that worked on this did a unbelievable job of putting this whole thing together in what about 2 months total !?


p.s. More results - now I've played through the end of 12/12/41 ...

Is Hong Kong supposed to start with fortification level 50 !!! ( It does )

Subs that get run over by real warship fleets still go glug - just like before ...

Had the US Asiatic fleet group up at Balikpapan and then head north to Jolo ... they ran over an IJN sub on the way up ... IJN sub took many hits and sank.

One of the returning USN CV TFs ran over an IJN sub on the way back to Pearl ... IJN sub took many hits and sank ...

Both of those felt just like before ...

Sent the historical PW/Repulse force north to attack the landings at Khota Bharu ( hey we're just testing here ! ) ... they caused mucho damage and will make it home ! Kongo was sunk ... ( 2 Brit DD also sunk ) !!! Interestingly the "public" report indicated PoW was sunk ... but actually she only has 1 sys dmg ... did you guys fiddle with the reporting acurracy ?? If so ... ok by me ... I'd just never seen a report that inaccurate before !?

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

First test results in for Scenario 155 ... on the Andy Brown V3 with Extension.

I'm playing both sides so I can see everything and control everything.

Best news is - no crashes ( yet ) !

Subs still take about the same number of hits to ASW ... BUT ... the amount of damage received is very different ...

First IJN sub attacked ( in shallow water ) off Pearl by 4 DMS ASW force ... received 5 hits and sank ... not much difference on that one.

The second IJN sub attacked ( in deep water ) off Pearl by same force, next turn ... received 7 hits but had ZERO damage !? This must be a result of the "no damage" ship piece Nik added.

US S boat went into shallow water at Legaspi to fight the forces landing there ( hey this is a test ! ) ... first turn took 2 hits ... but was still afloat ... second turn took a third hit and sank ...

Other S boats have gone into Aparri and Vigan to contest landings ... have gotten no hits ... and received no hits ...

That's about it for the subs so far ( only played 3 turns ) ...

I noticed there are 2 Doug MacArthur's ... I know some of you may really like Douggie ( I don't ) but can't we just have one of him ? Like don't even have the SOWESPAC HQ come into the game until say 1 May 42 ... that gives Doug plenty of time to get out of the P.I. ( I also realize this "feature" might have been in the original ... but we don't have to reproduce the problems in the original .. CHS should take things to a new level ! ) ...

Unfortunately you will find that very little work was done on either leaders or pilots. No one signed up to work on these two areas and the rest of us had our hands full in the areas we did take on. This is an area that needs some work - any volunteers??

All the graphics seem to function so far.

Oh there is a cute gunboat battle going on a Shanghai ... I haven't moved anything in or out of there ... and left all the IJN ships at dock ... still at dock ... but the 2 to 1 fight hasn't resolved itself yet ... the boats fought a night action one night ... but neither side got any hits !

You must have gotten a very unusual combat random effect - I've never seen poor Wake last more than two salvos.

I'm manuvering a lot of forces around in China ... boy things will be different there ... though the CHinese look even weaker at Yenan.

Burma will also be very different with only the trails to get in ( but I was one of the people researching this one - so I'm on board to try it as Andy as presented it ... in essence I got what I asked for ... so let's see if it works ... historically the Japanese spent about a month walking up to the border around Moulemein ... not the "week" they spend in the "as delievered" version ... Rangoon will now be the primary LOC ( I hope ).

Darwin lost even its paltry 10 resource points from the previous version ! So that and no rail ... will surely remove the "Darwin Axis" from the primary Allied counterattack route ( so we got what we wanted here as well ).

East Coast Malaya got a trail, instead of a hi way ... so we got what we asked for here as well.

A lot of the "excess" supply that was laying around waiting to be captured has been significantly reduced.

I need to read up on what the new "advanced" engines do ... but I increased them up a bit as I assume they are needed ... also need to learn when Lily IIs come in .. since they seem to be getting produced from the get go ... I'm sure there is no documentation on these changes ( since Don clearly said there was no documentation period ! ) ... but I guess most of the answers will be in the game if I look for them ...

So far everything on the map looks right. More results to come after a few days of testing.

The crew that worked on this did a unbelievable job of putting this whole thing together in what about 2 months total !?


p.s. More results - now I've played through the end of 12/12/41 ...

Is Hong Kong supposed to start with fortification level 50 !!! ( It does )

Yup - 50 it is. After much experimentation we found that to be the only way to prevent Hong Kong falling in the first few days. Post when it falls, will you. As to the map changes - I think Andrew Brown did a wonderful job. Resource and supply was a area of considerable attention.

Subs that get run over by real warship fleets still go glug - just like before ...

Had the US Asiatic fleet group up at Balikpapan and then head north to Jolo ... they ran over an IJN sub on the way up ... IJN sub took many hits and sank.

One of the returning USN CV TFs ran over an IJN sub on the way back to Pearl ... IJN sub took many hits and sank ...

Both of those felt just like before ...

Sent the historical PW/Repulse force north to attack the landings at Khota Bharu ( hey we're just testing here ! ) ... they caused mucho damage and will make it home ! Kongo was sunk ... ( 2 Brit DD also sunk ) !!! Interestingly the "public" report indicated PoW was sunk ... but actually she only has 1 sys dmg ... did you guys fiddle with the reporting acurracy ?? If so ... ok by me ... I'd just never seen a report that inaccurate before !?

We did not change reporting accuracy - only the order of battle. Ron led alterations in ASW values to try and adjust submarine actions and I'll let him respond to the submarine portions of your comments.

Don

[Oleg Mastruko]

Don will you post more in "CHS features" thread?

It appears as if some (IMO minor) changes are incredibly well documented and argumented, while some relatively important changes (Lemurs a/c database tweaks f.e.) will either be left undocumented or you didn't post about them yet. As I already expressed my fear in some other threads, it appears as if some incredibly detailed research has been done in some areas (say 41 Phillipine Army and US forces there, merchant shipping) while some unattractive and unglamorous areas will be left in the mud. Thanks.

Oleg

[scout1]

Unfortunately you will find that very little work was done on either leaders or pilots. No one signed up to work on these two areas and the rest of us had our hands full in the areas we did take on. This is an area that needs some work - any volunteers??

I could lend a hand here, but not sure just what needs to be done here. Most of the pilots are game generated (other than the few historical ones). The leaders traits have frankly taken a back seat since the leader bug has/had (v1.5) a nasty habit of redistributing them.

So what suggestions do people have regarding leader/pilot improvements ?

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

Don will you post more in "CHS features" thread?

It appears as if some (IMO minor) changes are incredibly well documented and argumented, while some relatively important changes (Lemurs a/c database tweaks f.e.) will either be left undocumented or you didn't post about them yet. As I already expressed my fear in some other threads, it appears as if some incredibly detailed research has been done in some areas (say 41 Phillipine Army and US forces there, merchant shipping) while some unattractive and unglamorous areas will be left in the mud. Thanks.

Oleg

Yes, I will post more entries in the Features thread.

[Lemurs!]

Don, did you not change over the US leaders i asked you to? They were in my mod which you were supposed to reference for changes.

There were several but two of the most obvious is removing Mac from SWPAC HQ and l;eaving no leader; the player can choose when the unit becomes active.
The other change is removing Patch from XIV Corps(?) at game start and putting him in Americal division where he belongs.

I guess i should write a new description of the advanced engines;
I felt that the paragraph i gave them in my readme would suffice, but i was wrong.

Okay, 'Advanced engines' do not do anything, they are not special or better. They are just a different model of engine. If you switch an aircraft factory to an airplane requiring 'advanced Mitsubishi engines' you are going to need to switch an engine factory of equal value (or multiple small factories or whatever) to 'Advanced Mitsubishi engines'.

Check the aircraft database ingame to check what aircraft require advanced engines. And when.

Probably i will put together a list of the aircraft and dates and post it in a FAQ post for the CHM.

Mike

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

Don, did you not change over the US leaders i asked you to? They were in my mod which you were supposed to reference for changes.

There were several but two of the most obvious is removing Mac from SWPAC HQ and l;eaving no leader; the player can choose when the unit becomes active.
The other change is removing Patch from XIV Corps(?) at game start and putting him in Americal division where he belongs.

No Sir, I did not. Should have, didn't. I'll have to give me a good talking too about this one. I'll add it to the pending changes list.

I guess i should write a new description of the advanced engines;
I felt that the paragraph i gave them in my readme would suffice, but i was wrong.

Okay, 'Advanced engines' do not do anything, they are not special or better. They are just a different model of engine. If you switch an aircraft factory to an airplane requiring 'advanced Mitsubishi engines' you are going to need to switch an engine factory of equal value (or multiple small factories or whatever) to 'Advanced Mitsubishi engines'.

Check the aircraft database ingame to check what aircraft require advanced engines. And when.

Probably i will put together a list of the aircraft and dates and post it in a FAQ post for the CHM.

Mike

Perhaps the CHS Features thread might be a good place. I've been using that as an accumulated documentation file.

Don

[pad152]

CHS - Aircraft

Japanese G5N Liz - I don't see any airgroups that use it or upgrade to it?

[Lemurs!]

G5N Liz.

I did not want to add fictional groups to the Japanese OOB.
The way it will work untill 1.5 is there are 2 Japanese Squadrons that upgrade to the G5N. No aircraft upgrades specifically to this plane. There will be no hordes of Japanese heavy bombers. At least not until 1.5.

Mike

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson


Subs still take about the same number of hits to ASW ... BUT ... the amount of damage received is very different ...

First IJN sub attacked ( in shallow water ) off Pearl by 4 DMS ASW force ... received 5 hits and sank ... not much difference on that one.

The second IJN sub attacked ( in deep water ) off Pearl by same force, next turn ... received 7 hits but had ZERO damage !? This must be a result of the "no damage" ship piece Nik added.

This happens because the DC/Sub coding routine was not designed to use armor vs. penetration rules used by surface warships. All DC's default in the game with 0 penetration. Adding armor to subs causes anomolies to occur between the different DC device types. Depending on the load value of the DC, the DC will in most cases either not penetrate at all (causing one to witness multiple hits, no penetrations thus no real damage to the sub) or the DC type will penetrate completely causing the normal ASW experience.

Depending on the armor rating given to the sub and the load value of the DC device....there is some varience here.....but what it all comes down to is, if the DC "penetrates" it causes normal damage, if it doesn't penetrate, it does nothing to the sub. There is no in-between.

[Andrew Brown]

I noticed there are 2 Doug MacArthur's ... I know some of you may really like Douggie ( I don't ) but can't we just have one of him ? Like don't even have the SOWESPAC HQ come into the game until say 1 May 42 ... that gives Doug plenty of time to get out of the P.I. ( I also realize this "feature" might have been in the original ... but we don't have to reproduce the problems in the original .. CHS should take things to a new level ! ) ...

I used to remove one of the MacArthurs in my modded scenarios, but I recall someone suggested there may have been two on purpose, so he was left in. I agree that it would be better to remove him from SWPAC.

[Bodhi]

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

I used to remove one of the MacArthurs in my modded scenarios, but I recall someone suggested there may have been two on purpose, so he was left in. I agree that it would be better to remove him from SWPAC.

I believe that he's in twice so that when/if the Philippines fall, he'll still be the head of SWPAC without the need to ferry him to Australia. Maybe it was the developer's way of trying to make a historical scenario?

[jwilkerson]

But instead of having him in there twice from the start ... bring in the SOWESPAC HQ .. around 1 May 42 ... by then the P.I. incarnation should be gone.

[jwilkerson]

Ok my CHS w/ MMv3 with Extension has reached 12/16/41 [I'm playing both side ... head to head ] ... and I've observed the following in addition to previous comments.

1. ASW is a 'little bit" better than before ... maybe 10% less effective ... but against 6 Allied DD ... IJN subs still go "glug" every time. IJN has lost 4 subs to date and gotten zero torpedo shots. USN has lost 1 sub to date and gotten zero torpedo shots. Of course the Dutch are doing fairly well. Hit a CA and some transports and have not been hit in return.

2. Andy - big one for you. In Burma the "Southern" trail from Bankok to Moulmein ... is a trail on the map ... but a railroad underneath ... the 55th Division reached Moulmein lickity split

3. Hong Kong ... with level 50 fort at start ... is losing about 1 fort level per day. I believe I am using the historical forces on the IJA side ... the 38 ID ... 4 Arty and 2 Eng ( that start at Canton ). So at this rate HK will fall in late Jan ... but we can wait till it falls before jumping up and down too much ... maybe towards the end I'll get 2 fort levels per day ...

4. Yup PoW really did get away ... even though the public report was that she was sunk ... and she really does have only 1 sys dmg point ... .even though she was afire and reported as having heavy damage after the 3rd engagement ... so somehow PoW made a big time saving throw ... are you sure you didn't change something to make this happen ? Never seen anything like that before.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Kong ... with level 50 fort at start ... is losing about 1 fort level per day. I believe I am using the historical forces on the IJA side ... the 38 ID ... 4 Arty and 2 Eng ( that start at Canton ). So at this rate HK will fall in late Jan ... but we can wait till it falls before jumping up and down too much ... maybe towards the end I'll get 2 fort levels per day ...

This is getting a little strange. I ran 10 tests at Fort Level 50 and got Hong Kong to fall between 19 and 30 December. Perhaps my computer is in a different time zone??

I'd appreciate knowing from any players when the see Hong Kong fall.

Don

[Lemurs!]

Jwilkerson,
Have you noticed the changes to the Japanese land OOB? What do you think? Is it changing the ground dynamic?
Do we have a paradigm about to bite us in the butt? [;)]

Mike

[Andrew Brown]

2. Andy - big one for you. In Burma the "Southern" trail from Bankok to Moulmein ... is a trail on the map ... but a railroad underneath ... the 55th Division reached Moulmein lickity split

I will take a look when I get a chance.

There have been two problems found with version 3 map data so far. I will probably fix them then upload a corrected data file to my website. That will take a few days though - real life is too busy for me at the moment...