CHS questions, comments & feedback

[Andrew Brown]

CHS China, when playing allies it's all to easy to walk all over southern China. It's far to easy to capture Nanning and surounding bases in the first 20days, something needs to be done for play balance (well there goes History ).

If possible, could you please give some more details about what you see happening in China?

[Lemurs!]

China problems have very little if anything to do with the CHS.
This has been a problem since day 1.

I asked about adding fort units to every Chinese city but i received no feedback so they are not in.

Mike

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: pad152

CHS China, when playing allies it's all to easy to walk all over southern China. It's far to easy to capture Nanning and surounding bases in the first 20days, something needs to be done for play balance (well there goes History[8|]).

Agree that this has always been a problem. The "solution" per earlier threads on this topic - involves a bit of work - but here is how it goes.

Quickly bring in ( fly probably ) some Naval infantry ( SNLF or NLF or Gurad troops ) to Nanning ( about 100 Assault Value will do the trick ) ... you can use boats to reinforce the port. Walk over the base force form the port, toss in some Nates or even the Tojo unit. Replace the 19th BDE leader with a good one and be prepared to bomb the Chinese if they come.

Since this has show to be enough to stop the Chinese - now my oppoenents ( I've been playing strickly IJA/IJN ) don't come any more - although I did lose this area in my first game - as I was unaware that all the above activities were needed. And BTW you need to start moving to effect the above immediately when the game starts !

Thanks to Mogami for the original tip.

===============

Now all the above being said, I think it was v1.3 which added in the "pre-planning" to the Chinese units to enable them to threaten Nanning ( and Hanoi ! ). So taking this preplanning away might help also. But for those who only want to play stock scenarios exactly as they are delivered - the above solution is the best you can do as far as I'm aware.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

China problems have very little if anything to do with the CHS.
This has been a problem since day 1.

I asked about adding fort units to every Chinese city but i received no feedback so they are not in.

Mike

Mike

I saw your posts and also looked for feedback. China is an area in which I am quite ignorant and was therefore waiting for responses and for a consensus to develop.

I play against the AI and with China on computer control – so I have little feel for the problems in China. If there is a problem there, I’d very much like to get a discussion going and see if we can come to a resolution.

[Bradley7735]

I've seen some posts on adding fort units to chinese bases. It will have it's benefits and drawbacks. Fort units can't march, so if the Japanese player takes a base, the fort unit is destroyed. Giving the Japanese player more points. But, if you make them mobile, the allied player can use them as offensive units.

I think there should be a way to make it better using prep points, fort levels (not fort units), and supply. Adding or decreasing all of these (including reducing supply for the Japanese player in China), would help.

I think that lowering all existing resource centers in China would be a good start. But, all chinese bases at start should give some small amount of intrinsic supply to make up for the lost resources. That way, the chinese don't starve too much, and the Japanese player doesn't get massive supply from resources.

Whether it makes it good is another question, one that I haven't been able to answer.

[Ron Saueracker]

Another problem with supply. I don't think western troops and Chinese and Japanese troops have the same supply needs, yet the game has them all requiring the same amount of SPAM.

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

China problems have very little if anything to do with the CHS.
This has been a problem since day 1.

It's possible that minor differences in my map could have major implications for campaigns such as China, which is why I ask for more details. My map hasn't been tested as much as I would like so far, and if there are problems introduced by it I need to know so that I can try to fix them.

[pad152]

If possible, could you please give some more details about what you see happening in China?

This as nothing to do with CHS.
It's true the AI is completly brain dead in China, having played the AI campaign 15 twice into mid-43, once as allies, then as Japan. It's far to easy to run amuck all over China. The AI does nothing in response to capture of key bases such as Hanoi and Haiphong. When playing the allies after taking Haiphong, I was able to move ships from Manila to Haiphong and use it a sub base and airbase with no response from the AI.

CHS - China, playing as allies, it's far to easy to move Chinese troops into Nanning, Pakhoi, then go into Hanoi, Haiphong, Hue, Ubon, Lang Prabang early in the game.

Maybe for play balance, Chinese troops outside of Nanning should start in Kunning, and Japanese troops be beefed up.

You almost have to create two scenarios with Witp, one for playing against the AI and one for playing against other players.

[scout1]

Did the CHS adjust the "ready" points for LCU's for the start of the game ?
I always found it odd that the japanese and chinese troops didn't start with
Prep points for some location.

[jcjordan]

A couple of things I forgot to ask about but remembered when I loaded the game for tonight, was there is a Christmas Is (IO) just west of Java what's this in difference to the one by Palmyra is the S Pac? Also is the Dewey Dry docks towable from Manila or is it to become auto points for the IJ forces when they take Manila? Also is Aden now the main supply for SE Asia or is Karachi still it?

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: scout1

Did the CHS adjust the "ready" points for LCU's for the start of the game ?
I always found it odd that the japanese and chinese troops didn't start with
Prep points for some location.

I think some Chinese units got prep-points around release 1.3 ... this enables some offensive threat against, Nanning, Hanoi and Canton ... and improves defense of some of the "front line" cities.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: scout1

Did the CHS adjust the "ready" points for LCU's for the start of the game ?
I always found it odd that the japanese and chinese troops didn't start with
Prep points for some location.

Very little work was done with Chinese forces - we do not have anyone with extensive knowledge in the area. I'd very much like input on Chinese land and air forces.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

A couple of things I forgot to ask about but remembered when I loaded the game for tonight, was there is a Christmas Is (IO) just west of Java what's this in difference to the one by Palmyra is the S Pac? Also is the Dewey Dry docks towable from Manila or is it to become auto points for the IJ forces when they take Manila? Also is Aden now the main supply for SE Asia or is Karachi still it?

1. There were indeed two islands named Christmas - apparently a lot of discovering happened during the holidays. The (original game) one in the Central Pacific was a U.S. airbase. The (new) one near Java was a minor British outpost.

2. The Dewey Dry Dock has zero speed but I believe the game mechanics allow movement to simulate towing. Historically it was scuttled. I say that I believe towing is simulated as I have not played the game in months - just worked on CHS.

3. Supply and reinforcements arrive in Middle East or Aden to simulate transfers from Europe. These previously arrived at Karachi. Also, some U.S. forces that came through the Panama Canal will now do so.

[eMonticello]

I'm running an AI vs. AI game and the Allies moved Dewey Dry Docks to Java before it was sunk.

ORIGINAL: jcjordan
Also is the Dewey Dry docks towable from Manila or is it to become auto points for the IJ forces when they take Manila?

[jwilkerson]

I do have a fairly rich set of resources on WWII Chinese ground OB not air ... just ground ... but wow ... that is really a whole 'nother game in and of itself ... do we really want to do a full redo ... an "accurate redo" ... of the Chinese OB ? It is such a hodge podge ... and the named sizes of units bears no relation to anything meaningful ... you can have a division ... that we would recognize as a division ... and then you could have a "Army" right beside it ... that is half the size ... in other words a Battaltion could be anything from a Squad to a Battalion ... and the terms Corps, Army and Army Group were essentially interchangeable and hence meaningless ..., just depended on how important some war lord wanted to sound ... the "TOE" ... was about as standard as a random number generator .. first choosing from a random distribution generator !!

Anyway .. define the scope of what you think should be done ... and I'll try to decide if I can help here or at least help whoever is volunteering to own it ( if I can't ). But "fixing" China ... is a tall order !

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

I do have a fairly rich set of resources on WWII Chinese ground OB not air ... just ground ... but wow ... that is really a whole 'nother game in and of itself ... do we really want to do a full redo ... an "accurate redo" ... of the Chinese OB ? It is such a hodge podge ... and the named sizes of units bears no relation to anything meaningful ... you can have a division ... that we would recognize as a division ... and then you could have a "Army" right beside it ... that is half the size ... in other words a Battaltion could be anything from a Squad to a Battalion ... and the terms Corps, Army and Army Group were essentially interchangeable and hence meaningless ..., just depended on how important some war lord wanted to sound ... the "TOE" ... was about as standard as a random number generator .. first choosing from a random distribution generator !!

Anyway .. define the scope of what you think should be done ... and I'll try to decide if I can help here or at least help whoever is volunteering to own it ( if I can't ). But "fixing" China ... is a tall order !

I'm really not qualified to answer this question - I am completely ignorant about Chinese land forces.

WIth a little thought I am not too sure about a major revision - issues with game balance and using up all remaining Land Unit slots.

I'd love to hear other's opinions...

[Bradley7735]

I am ok with generalizing the chinese LCU oob. I think that the effort here would not give the desired benefits. If you change it too much, you'll either get a chinese army that is too powerful or too weak.

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735

I am ok with generalizing the chinese LCU oob. I think that the effort here would not give the desired benefits. If you change it too much, you'll either get a chinese army that is too powerful or too weak.

Well the one we have now is - for whatever reason - too weak. If the Japanese could've run over the Chinese the way we can - they would not have had to start WWII.

But the slot limit is probably a show stopper in terms of a full Chinese OB ... even if only down to the division level with supporting units ... i.e. the same level of detail as in the other Armies.

Too strong or too weak is probably adjustable in the database - even given a different OB.


But for my money - this game is called WITP ... not WIC ... WIC is probably a whole 'nother game [ and War in Russia another game ... and war in India another game ... etc. ]

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: scout1

Did the CHS adjust the "ready" points for LCU's for the start of the game ?
I always found it odd that the japanese and chinese troops didn't start with
Prep points for some location.

I did add 100% readiness to as many Soviet forces as possible, in order to make them a bit more resistent to an early conquest by the Japanese...

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735

I am ok with generalizing the chinese LCU oob. I think that the effort here would not give the desired benefits. If you change it too much, you'll either get a chinese army that is too powerful or too weak.

There you go... some theaters are more equal than others [;)]

Japanese Army considered China their main theatre till the very end of the war. And for a reason. Japanese started Pacific War because of China. And you're OK with generalizing coupla Chinese armies, but some drydock in Manila - hey that's something else, it has to be represented in the game [;)]

Why don't you guys just openly admit no one wants to bother with some unglamorous unsexy things, no one really cares about China, and just keep on adding Allied stuff to the game (with some Japanese stuff for good measure to keep IJN fanboys quiet)? [:D]

I am kinda joking, please don't start a flame war over this post. [&o] But I hope I do get my message accross.

Yes, balancing China theatre is definitely hard and unglamorous work, but of you're serious about your mod, someone has to do it, and do it *seriously* and earnestly.

O.