SU-2

[kisslove]

Why does computer automatically upgrades factories of su-2 to il-2 in first turn of 41 campaign when historically su-2 was produced till 42? May be it could be fixed?

[Mist]

Originally posted by Alexey:
Why does computer automatically upgrades factories of su-2 to il-2 in first turn of 41 campaign when historically su-2 was produced till 42? May be it could be fixed?

Alexey, could you please post more detailed info on Su-2 and IL-2 production here?

[kisslove]

Originally posted by Mist:

Alexey, could you please post more detailed info on Su-2 and IL-2 production here?

Ugh... Okay. (this looks strange: 2 russians speking english )

there's not much about production...

SU-2:

Built since 1940 first named as BB-1 then SU-2, modifications with more powerfull engines were named SU-4. Production of both(?) were stopped in 1942 was built 877 units. By another book(english in origin) were built 2000 units from 40 to 42.
...
I found somethig: was built on 2 factories before the war and was created another one right before the war.

try this: http://tuad.nsk.ru/~history/suvorov/suv_chis.htm[/url] !!!(IN RUSSIAN) may be you'll find there something I'm too lazy

Il-2(even less):

from 41 to 45 was built 36163 units, no factories names/indexes

[ July 26, 2001: Message edited by: Alexey ]

[Mist]

Originally posted by Alexey:


Ugh... Okay. (this looks strange: 2 russians speking english )

действительно странно но тут и шведы и фины и германцы и все тоже говорят по английски. хотя был тут почти чисто немецкий топик один раз.


there's not much about production...

SU-2:

Built since 1940 first named as BB-1 then SU-2, modifications with more powerfull engines were named SU-4. Production of both(?) were stopped in 1942 was built 877 units. By another book(english in origin) were built 2000 units from 40 to 42.

both planes are available by 22/6/41 and Su-2 upgrades to IL-2 according to scenario setup. it can be solved by removing this upgrade from chain, but then there should be something to what Su-2 will be upgraded in 1942 when its production becomes halted.

try this: ]http://tuad.nsk.ru/~history/suvorov/suv_chis.htm[/URL] !!!(IN RUSSIAN) may be you'll find there something I'm too lazy

oh my God. Discussion about Suvorov's "theory". I've spend an hour reading it. Now I know even more than before of his mistakes and misleadings. But still no detailed info about production.


Il-2(even less):
from 41 to 45 was built 36163 units, no factories names/indexes

I think this information should be taken into account. Ricky, if you are reading this, what are your thoughts about Su-2 to IL-2 too early upgrade please?

[ July 26, 2001: Message edited by: Alexey ][/QB]

[RickyB]

Originally posted by Mist:
I think this information should be taken into account. Ricky, if you are reading this, what are your thoughts about Su-2 to IL-2 too early upgrade please?

That is one of the weaknesses of the production system. With upgrades, only one or the other item is produced, except for a small overlap period as the factories convert. Without an upgrade, the game engine will continue to produce the same equipment throughout the game, which isn't wanted. The Elefant to Nashorn conversion caused the same problems, which I resolved by entering a Nashorn reinforcement with a number of Nashorns in it, while keeping the factory conversion to the same date. This could be done here, I guess, with a fair number of damaged Il2 at start while the conversion date is moved back, but probably still before 1942. The game starts with nearly 600 Su2s.

Arnaud is keeping control of the air unit portion, so it may be a question for him.

[JustAGame]

Originally posted by RickyB:

That is one of the weaknesses of the production system. With upgrades, only one or the other item is produced, except for a small overlap period as the factories convert. Without an upgrade, the game engine will continue to produce the same equipment throughout the game, which isn't wanted. The Elefant to Nashorn conversion caused the same problems, which I resolved by entering a Nashorn reinforcement with a number of Nashorns in it, while keeping the factory conversion to the same date. This could be done here, I guess, with a fair number of damaged Il2 at start while the conversion date is moved back, but probably still before 1942. The game starts with nearly 600 Su2s.

Arnaud is keeping control of the air unit portion, so it may be a question for him.

There are a significant number of unused factory slots. Does Arnaud have the capability to stop production for a given factory on a certain date? If that capability exists, then the above issue could be resolved by ending the production of the factories producing SU-2s (with upgrade as 254) and beginning production of new factories for the IL-2s simultaneously. In summary, the SU-2 factories disappear in phases and the IL-2 factories enter in phases.

[RickyB]

Originally posted by JustAGame:
There are a significant number of unused factory slots. Does Arnaud have the capability to stop production for a given factory on a certain date? If that capability exists, then the above issue could be resolved by ending the production of the factories producing SU-2s (with upgrade as 254) and beginning production of new factories for the IL-2s simultaneously. In summary, the SU-2 factories disappear in phases and the IL-2 factories enter in phases.

Interesting thought. Currently the upgrades are totally driven by when the replacement becomes available, so it would not work now. I don't think it would be terribly difficult to add in something as you are suggesting, but it is probably not a simple change either. Good point to consider for the next upgrade, if there is one after the almost ready one.

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by RickyB:

Interesting thought. Currently the upgrades are totally driven by when the replacement becomes available, so it would not work now. I don't think it would be terribly difficult to add in something as you are suggesting, but it is probably not a simple change either. Good point to consider for the next upgrade, if there is one after the almost ready one.

I like this too. I'm putting it on the issues list (optimistically assuming there will be future upgrades). I'm in favor of anything that moves hardwired in-the-program behavior to the user-modifiable scenario file.