Soviet armored units

Josans · Post by **Josans** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 2:06 am

Why the soviets have only 5 armored units throughout the game?
The 5 units become available in April 42 and nothing more

I think the russians were better prepared for the war in 44-45.They had more tanks and trucks than 1942. Tactically, for example in Bagration, the soviets did great use of blizkrieg tactics and managed to make many pockets (in the first days of the offensive 28 german divisions of the 40 Army Group Center had, were seriously in danger of encirclement).

So why not add new armored units to reflect this as germans have?

Josan.

Rundstedt · Post by **Rundstedt** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 2:17 am

Maybe it's because Germany wouldn't hve a chance in the game to withstand the Soviet force otherwise. You know, I think Rodina is strong enough in 1944...

Best regards, Rundstedt

Mist · Post by **Mist** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 2:17 am

I agree. Why not? Let more mobile units become available for Russian side in later years.

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:26 pm

Originally posted by Mist:
I agree. Why not? Let more mobile units become available for Russian side in later years.

I've already brought this up. Its on the "issues" list. My suggestion to Arnaud was for the campaign '41 scenario at least to convert the 3 "Mobile Groups" to regular tank corps (6th,7th,8th). These "Mobile Groups" are used in some scenarios by the AI, and in those scenarios they act just like a tank corps, but because they are given a special status, they never become visible to a human player. Why this was done, I have no idea.

For those who want to change this, you can do so in editwir. Go to the end of the corps list, there you'll find the units, and change the nationality and corps type numbers to match the Soviet tank armies and your done.

Muzrub · Post by **Muzrub** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:33 pm

For those who want to change this, you can do so in editwir. Go to the end of the corps list, there you'll find the units, and change the nationality and corps type numbers to match the Soviet tank armies and your done.

Change the Nationality from who?.

Can explain this a bit better for us uneducated morons?.

Thanks.

Ranger-75 · Post by **Ranger-75** » Sat Jul 28, 2001 8:03 am

The reason that the soviet union only has 5 Tank Armies available is because they did not possess the orgazinational capability to operate more than this. 5 was a stretch of their abilities. It was only massive infusions of US and UK aid that made even this possible.

Josans · Post by **Josans** » Sat Jul 28, 2001 1:01 pm

Originally posted by Mike Santos:
The reason that the soviet union only has 5 Tank Armies available is because they did not possess the orgazinational capability to operate more than this. 5 was a stretch of their abilities. It was only massive infusions of US and UK aid that made even this possible.

Are you saying that russians had the the same orgazinational capability in 1942 as 1944?

Also the soviets learn to make mobile warfare later the war. Of course would be a nightmare play the germans but ...

Josan

Phocks · Post by **Phocks** » Sun Jul 29, 2001 11:36 am

Well, historically speaking, the Soviets never formed more than 5 tank armies (plus 1 in the Far East IIRC). The reason for this is quite simple, the inadequate number of mobile signals and logistical units to support more large mechanized concentrations. The number of armored untis in the 1941 scenario is also far larger than historical, because in reality, all the Tank and mechanized corps and divisions were disbanded in 1941 to form brigades, ,many of which were later amalgamated into the Tank Corps and later Mechanized Corps. The 1944 scenario has a very acurate OOB for the Soviet Tank forces, the other scenarios much less so.
What IS missing are the many Cavalry/Mechanized groups that were typically formed by 1-2 cavalry divisions and 1 Mech/tank corps. They show in some scenarios, but not the campaigns.

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Mon Jul 30, 2001 12:07 am

Originally posted by Muzrub:

Change the Nationality from who?.

Can explain this a bit better for us uneducated morons?.

Speaking of morons, I may be talking about something you can only do with the next version of editwir.exe. I don't have an older version to check. So I may have spoken too soon.

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Mon Jul 30, 2001 12:15 am

Originally posted by Phocks:
Well, historically speaking, the Soviets never formed more than 5 tank armies (plus 1 in the Far East IIRC). The reason for this is quite simple, the inadequate number of mobile signals and logistical units to support more large mechanized concentrations. The number of armored untis in the 1941 scenario is also far larger than historical, because in reality, all the Tank and mechanized corps and divisions were disbanded in 1941 to form brigades, ,many of which were later amalgamated into the Tank Corps and later Mechanized Corps. The 1944 scenario has a very acurate OOB for the Soviet Tank forces

Uhhh, wait a second, there are 8 tank armies in the '44 scenario that you just said was more accurate. There's a "6th" army, and 2 of those pesky "Mobile Groups". This is why the subject of those "Mobile Groups" came up, since the Soviet player in the later scenarios has more than 5 tank armies. So why shouldn't the Soviet player in the '41 campaign have the same capability?

frank1970 · Post by **frank1970** » Tue Jul 31, 2001 3:48 pm

Would it be possible to give the cavallerie corps a plotnumber of three or so? They should be able to keep up with the tank corps.

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Tue Jul 31, 2001 5:26 pm

Originally posted by Frank:
Would it be possible to give the cavallerie corps a plotnumber of three or so? They should be able to keep up with the tank corps.

Already done. In the next version cavalry are considered "mobile" and can plot 5 moves with no penalties, i.e. they lose readiness just like a panzer division.