Game-breaking flaw in PBEM?!? Easy cheat?

[dobeln]

I think the reload counter is a pretty good form of cheating protection. The Axis first turn is generally pretty easy anyways, and the penalty for taking an extra tank casualty or two in France are light - you'll get em back quickly, and you won't really need em until 41. (In most cases.) As said elsewhere, if you really want protection, getting an umpire to start the axis turn should be a good way to go.

The suggestion that reinstalling the game should be a workaround for the load counter seems a bit strange - after all, that information is stored in the savegame file, not in the game itself.

[PDiFolco]

ORIGINAL: dobeln

I think the reload counter is a pretty good form of cheating protection. The Axis first turn is generally pretty easy anyways, and the penalty for taking an extra tank casualty or two in France are light - you'll get em back quickly, and you won't really need em until 41. (In most cases.) As said elsewhere, if you really want protection, getting an umpire to start the axis turn should be a good way to go.

The suggestion that reinstalling the game should be a workaround for the load counter seems a bit strange - after all, that information is stored in the savegame file, not in the game itself.

Bah, in this case copying a backup of the save is a very simple workaround ... I suggested reinstall as a "last ditch" cheating measure [:'(]

[Bluestew0]

ORIGINAL: paullus99

I, for one, have been on the receiving end of several whipping in this game alone & I chock each one up to learning experiences.

Darn tootin'! I don't learn too much from a victory, but getting my rump handed to me always results in valuable knowledge earned.

[dobeln]

Ah, that makes more sense. (Runs off to cheat my pants off! )

[sveint]

I'd love TCP/IP support.

Unfortunately I know very well it's not an easy thing to implement.

[dobeln]

"Unfortunately I know very well it's not an easy thing to implement."

Well, considering an open-source project like tripleA (http://triplea.sourceforge.net/) can do solid TCP/IP, it shouldn't be past the capabilites of Matrix

[PeterF]

I never ever played on those competitive ladders and their tournaments because I thought they are too competitive for my taste. But other than ladders, I played dozens if not hundereds of TOAW PBEMs. I didn't want to let the possibility of cheating to ruin my enjoyment.

Man, you're sick.[;)]

What's wrong with having the best of both worlds: open, trust-based play with email buds and high-security, cutthroat matches with ladder fiends?

You only expect a reasonable barrier; if someone's willing to uninstall,reinstall the game or hack the exe files what can you do?
Reagan to Gorbachev: 'Trust but verify'.

[Jombee]

This is another good argument for TCP/IP play, but it should not be the main reason why TCP/IP play is hopefully going to be added. It should be added because numerous people (including myselft) that post here (and I'm sure many others) would prefer to use it as a multiplayer option.

[Twotribes]

Whats the point of an online game where an individual turn can last so long as can happen in this game? This wasnt designed to be an online game. Thus PBEM. If your so paranoid someone is cheating, dont play them, dont play at all if you cant get over the fact that most people arent gonna cheat.

[eMonticello]

ORIGINAL: Twotribes
Whats the point of an online game where an individual turn can last so long as can happen in this game? This wasnt designed to be an online game. Thus PBEM. If your so paranoid someone is cheating, dont play them, dont play at all if you cant get over the fact that most people arent gonna cheat.

It makes no difference if the game wasn't designed for tcp/ip ... certain folks will want it because A&A had this feature or they wish to play WAW at LAN Parties.

[Jombee]

Why do people insist on telling players that want TCP/IP play, that TCP/IP play won't work with this game? I've been playing wargames for over 30 years (boardgames, PBEM and TCP/IP), and I think I can make my own decision on the type of multiplayer I would like to use with this game. My friends and I have been playing Axis&Allies for years, with great success using TCP/IP. While this game is clearly much more involved than A&A, I would think that any reasonable person would agree that both games are simuliar. In MY opinion, I believe that this game would be much better over TCP/IP when playing with your friends, or for extended evening sessions. I you don't agree, thats fine, but why continue to bash it?

[Scott_WAR]

LOL, ok I shouldnt have added that, as this has now turned into yet another debate. Lets let it go, and get back to security issues with PBEM, the original point of this thread. My mistake, and my apologies.

[ravinhood]

Why do people insist on telling players that want TCP/IP play, that TCP/IP play won't work with this game?

Because they can that's why!!

[FirstPappy]

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Whats the point of an online game where an individual turn can last so long as can happen in this game? This wasnt designed to be an online game. Thus PBEM. If your so paranoid someone is cheating, dont play them, dont play at all if you cant get over the fact that most people arent gonna cheat.

How about on line game with timed turns like in chess?

[Uncle_Joe]

To me, it would ideally allow a 'non active' player to 1) see everything happening in real time (assuming FOW is off) or 2) be able to browse around the map and data screens while waiting for his turn. I would much prefer '1' though. This helps keep continuity in the game (something I lose in PBEM, especially if I'm playing solo games).

I dont understand the resistance to wanting to add TCP/IP play. I doubt I'll ever use the PBEM, but I dont begrudge the time it took to implement because it enhances the total user base for the game. TCP/IP would do the same. More users = more development and more support. It also means more likelihood of similar games in the future. I think everyone should want the game to appeal to as many people as it possible can, not leaving those who DO want to play over the 'net out in the cold.

[WanderingHead]

The solution to cheating is to use an online dice server (e.g., much like TripleA [mentioned elsewhere in this thread] does) or have GGWAW send a record of dice rolls after every battle to every email address.

The dice server is cheat free, so far as I can figure out.

Having GGWAW send the email after every battle might still allow cheats to get around it somehow unless GGWAW hangs the battle (no results) unless it can get the email off.

Either way requires an internet connection while you play.

I would think that tournament play should use a dice server.

[PDiFolco]

ORIGINAL: Jombee

Why do people insist on telling players that want TCP/IP play, that TCP/IP play won't work with this game? I've been playing wargames for over 30 years (boardgames, PBEM and TCP/IP), and I think I can make my own decision on the type of multiplayer I would like to use with this game. My friends and I have been playing Axis&Allies for years, with great success using TCP/IP. While this game is clearly much more involved than A&A, I would think that any reasonable person would agree that both games are simuliar. In MY opinion, I believe that this game would be much better over TCP/IP when playing with your friends, or for extended evening sessions. I you don't agree, thats fine, but why continue to bash it?

Nope, rather because those guys (me included) think that the dev team has more useful things to do (fixes, secure pbem, new graphics/scenarios, whatever ) than implement TCP/IP play for a quite small audience...[:'(]

[mavraamides]

ORIGINAL: paullus99

Actually, the counter is not how many times its been saved - it is how many times its been loaded - so if you see a 3 when you open a turn, your opponent restarted 3 separate times & he should have a pretty good explanation for why he did it, or he's cheating.

Just so I'm clear on this:

If I start a PBEM turn, then save it when I'm halfway done for whatever reason like maybe I need to do something else on my computer, then reload it to continue my turn, will that look like I'm cheating when in fact, I'm just failing to complete my turn in 1 session?

If so, I have some explaining to do with a couple PBEM oponents. I almost never finish a turn in 1 sitting when I'm playing an entire side.

[Barthheart]

ORIGINAL: GordianKnot

ORIGINAL: paullus99

Actually, the counter is not how many times its been saved - it is how many times its been loaded - so if you see a 3 when you open a turn, your opponent restarted 3 separate times & he should have a pretty good explanation for why he did it, or he's cheating.

Just so I'm clear on this:

If I start a PBEM turn, then save it when I'm halfway done for whatever reason like maybe I need to do something else on my computer, then reload it to continue my turn, will that look like I'm cheating when in fact, I'm just failing to complete my turn in 1 session?

If so, I have some explaining to do with a couple PBEM oponents. I almost never finish a turn in 1 sitting when I'm playing an entire side.

No, the counter does not go up if you save in the middle of your turn. It counts the number of times you load the PBEM save not your turn saves... they are different.

[mavraamides]

ORIGINAL: Barthheart

ORIGINAL: GordianKnot

ORIGINAL: paullus99

Actually, the counter is not how many times its been saved - it is how many times its been loaded - so if you see a 3 when you open a turn, your opponent restarted 3 separate times & he should have a pretty good explanation for why he did it, or he's cheating.

Just so I'm clear on this:

If I start a PBEM turn, then save it when I'm halfway done for whatever reason like maybe I need to do something else on my computer, then reload it to continue my turn, will that look like I'm cheating when in fact, I'm just failing to complete my turn in 1 session?

If so, I have some explaining to do with a couple PBEM oponents. I almost never finish a turn in 1 sitting when I'm playing an entire side.

No, the counter does not go up if you save in the middle of your turn. It counts the number of times you load the PBEM save not your turn saves... they are different.

What if you start your turn and the game crashes? I was having a problem where some multi-media app completely unrelated to WAW was crashing during the game and it brought the game down with it. Once I un-installed that app, the game ran fine. But I probably had to reload the PBEM game I was in about 8 times before I figured out what the problem was. Would that look like cheating?