American destoyers ASW cpability?

[Roger Neilson]

Given how accurtae this game is I have just learned that American destoyers were armed with anti submarine torpedoes....

I learned this as Sub SS1-16 just went down having taken a torpedo hit - it shrugged off some depth charges!


[:@]

Not amusing




Roger

[Iridium]

Must have surfaced just to take a torp in the side...><, on the flip side I have yet to sink a sub as Japan...

[Roger Neilson]

Silly me, I assumed that if a sub surfaced it would normally be shot up with the destroyers superior gunnery - especially 8 of them... this commander must have fancied a challenge - so he selected a torpedo, sent it off and a few minutes later, the sub still sitting waiting on the surface got hit.......

There is some intended irony in the above comments!

Blah!



Roger

[Ramjet]

I can certainly understand your frustration, and it is probably unlikely that a submarine was ever sunk by a torpedo in WWII. However, for the US Navy during the cold war, it was a common tactic for torpedo equipted ships to fire a torpedo down the line of bearing from where a torpedo came from. Thought was to at least give the unseen enemy something to think about as your ship tries desparately to avoid the incomming torpedo. I wouldn't doubt that if an attack happened at night, and if the DD was the one that the action was initiated against, that a DD Captain may order his torpedoes fired in the general direction of the incomming hoping to get lucky. On another note, I read many accounts in the Atlantic where the British FF and DE's would ram a surfaced (or shallow) submarine, but I don't recall ever seeing that happen in this game.

[DrewMatrix]

unlikely that a submarine was ever sunk by a torpedo in WWII

I am going to use the lazy excuse that I am at work and don't have my books at hand, but weren't several Axis subs sunk by torpedoes from Allied subs in WWII?

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Ramjet

I can certainly understand your frustration, and it is probably unlikely that a submarine was ever sunk by a torpedo in WWII. However, for the US Navy during the cold war, it was a common tactic for torpedo equipted ships to fire a torpedo down the line of bearing from where a torpedo came from. Thought was to at least give the unseen enemy something to think about as your ship tries desparately to avoid the incomming torpedo. I wouldn't doubt that if an attack happened at night, and if the DD was the one that the action was initiated against, that a DD Captain may order his torpedoes fired in the general direction of the incomming hoping to get lucky. On another note, I read many accounts in the Atlantic where the British FF and DE's would ram a surfaced (or shallow) submarine, but I don't recall ever seeing that happen in this game.

Many submarines were sunk by torpedoes in WW2. Not only were subs prey to other submarine torpedoes (US, German, British, Japanese, and Italian subs were sunk by other subs), but the Allies developed a homing torpedo that was dropped by aircraft that was pretty effective (nicknamed FIDO, it was an acoustic homing torp, usually moving at relatively slow speed, around 18 kts, iirc.) The allies also developed an active sonar homing torpedo.

I don't think any subs were sunk by DD regular (non-homing) torpedoes.

[Roger Neilson]

For my own sanity I am putting it down to a misreported combat report......

I don't believe a DD in 1941 would torp a sub, on the surface or otherwise.

Roger[8D]

[Oznoyng]

I about have a coronary every time I see my SAG's using torpedos on AK's... Man, if this were real life, I would have shot a bunch of junior officers already. Chief among them:

Whoever makes the dipshit decision to escort 12 Kates with 74 Zeros, but sends off 60 kates and 50 Vals without an escort. Twice.

Any SAG commander that torpedos a transport when he has a full magazine of gun ammo and the said transports are in gun range and slower than the SAG...

[roberto5352]

bwahahaha!

The more interesting question is why your sub surfaced to attack an ASW patrol of 8 or so DDs.

[ChezDaJez]

and it is probably unlikely that a submarine was ever sunk by a torpedo in WWII.

Here is a list of Japanese submarines sunk by US and British subs during WWII: I-73, I-23, I-28, I-64, I-4, I-18, I-168, I-182, I-34, I-43, I-42, I-174, I-183, I-168, I-29, I-364, I-365, RO-115, RO-112, RO-113, RO-49, RO-46; I-122, I-351, I-373.

Wahoo and Sailfish also claimed to have sunk a sub each but the claims could not be matched to Japanese losses.

Here's an example from combinedfleet.com:

27 January 1942:
240 miles W of Midway. LtCdr (later Vice Admiral) Elton W. Grenfell's USS GUDGEON (SS-211) is returning to Pearl Harbor from her first war patrol to the Bungo Straits off Japan. Grenfell receives an "Ultra" message advising of the approach of three Japanese submarines (I-18, I-22 and the I-24).**

The I-73 is enroute back to Yokosuka. Her propeller sounds are picked up by sonar off the GUDGEON's port bow. Grenfell, running submerged, spots the submarine and begins his attack. The I-73, with many of her crewmen on deck, is running a straight course and not zigzagging. Grenfell fires three Mark 14 steam torpedoes from 1,800 yards and scores two hits***. The I-73 sinks with all hands at 28-24N, 178-35E. She is the first warship ever sunk by an American submarine.

Chez

[eMonticello]

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson
Given how accurtae this game is I have just learned that American destoyers were armed with anti submarine torpedoes....

I learned this as Sub SS1-16 just went down having taken a torpedo hit - it shrugged off some depth charges!
[:@]

Roger

Actually, it is only one destroyer escort, USS Eldridge. She has a photon torpedo launcher.

[CapAndGown]

I about have a coronary every time I see my SAG's using torpedos on AK's... Man, if this were real life, I would have shot a bunch of junior officers already.

You would have fired the Admiral in charge of the Balikpapan action? [&:]

[Tristanjohn]

ORIGINAL: Ramjet

I can certainly understand your frustration, and it is probably unlikely that a submarine was ever sunk by a torpedo in WWII. However, for the US Navy during the cold war, it was a common tactic for torpedo equipted ships to fire a torpedo down the line of bearing from where a torpedo came from. Thought was to at least give the unseen enemy something to think about as your ship tries desparately to avoid the incomming torpedo. I wouldn't doubt that if an attack happened at night, and if the DD was the one that the action was initiated against, that a DD Captain may order his torpedoes fired in the general direction of the incomming hoping to get lucky. On another note, I read many accounts in the Atlantic where the British FF and DE's would ram a surfaced (or shallow) submarine, but I don't recall ever seeing that happen in this game.

Submarine sinkings from torpedoes happened a number of times in WWII, and at least once from a plane-launched torpedo, and that's coming from someone whose memory is famous for being feeble. I do not recall an incident where a submarine was sunk from a torpedo launched from a surface ship, though, but then again, remember how feeble my memory is. [:)]

[Roger Neilson]

I don't think it did!

That would be extreme lunacy.

Roger

[Rob322]

ORIGINAL: Tristanjohn

ORIGINAL: Ramjet

I can certainly understand your frustration, and it is probably unlikely that a submarine was ever sunk by a torpedo in WWII. However, for the US Navy during the cold war, it was a common tactic for torpedo equipted ships to fire a torpedo down the line of bearing from where a torpedo came from. Thought was to at least give the unseen enemy something to think about as your ship tries desparately to avoid the incomming torpedo. I wouldn't doubt that if an attack happened at night, and if the DD was the one that the action was initiated against, that a DD Captain may order his torpedoes fired in the general direction of the incomming hoping to get lucky. On another note, I read many accounts in the Atlantic where the British FF and DE's would ram a surfaced (or shallow) submarine, but I don't recall ever seeing that happen in this game.

Submarine sinkings from torpedoes happened a number of times in WWII, and at least once from a plane-launched torpedo, and that's coming from someone whose memory is famous for being feeble. I do not recall an incident where a submarine was sunk from a torpedo launched from a surface ship, though, but then again, remember how feeble my memory is. [:)]

I've been playing Scenario 16 and seen this once (I'm at 12/43) and unfortunately killed one of my better subs, bastards. But it was only one sub.