3 vs 3 PBEM starting

[String]

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

String

I have not seen the map but it sounds like China is doing fine. I dno't understand why you are worried. I sounds like you have turned China into a swamp and that is about the best you can do. I don't see any huge defeats coming your way though you may lose Changsha. But as long as the army there is able to retreat you will be ok.

The thing is, the chinese cannot win. They can avoid losing but they cannot concievably push japanese out of china imho. IF they could be supplied properly then it could happen, but there is no way that there can be enough supplies for an allout offensive in china.

What I was afraid of was that the japanese side would try to eliminate the chinese theatre and then would start transferring units out of there or would attack russia or india.

The biggest thing I'm afraid of is that IF and when the japanese manage to capture the railway line they would just roll up chinese forces. I've done it myself so I know it's possible. The truce would be a safeguard against that, but at the same time I wouldn't like to keep myself bound by it in 44 or 45 when things get better.

As the chinese I'd never take an offensive farther than the railway line, it's impossible. All my agressiveness so far has been to prevent the japanese from taking the railway line and then advancing inland. Passive defence won't work in china.

addon: The reason I asked for the truce was because currently the chinese theatre is just chewing up my nerves. However within a few months China will be my only major theatre to command (unless the japs invade India).. therefore a truce there would be a bit boring... therefore I have another proposal.

In case one side manages to control the entire railway line then a truce is set in place under terms specified earlier for 6 months. After that the other side can have a go at reconquering the railway line. No side can advance beyond the railway line, within reason ofcourse, sending units one hex from the line can be allowed. This would limit the fighting to historical areas, would prevent large withdrawals of ground or air units and at the same time would prevent unrealistic outcomes.

[AmiralLaurent]

I have no problems with any truce made in China but have some comments.

First a Japanese division is worth more than 3000 PPs. That means that if Japan do nothing with his PP he can retire one of China every two months.

On the other hand, China is the only place where troops may be taken to be sent to the Pacific, especially as new divisions are created in spring 1942.

And then my favorite tactic in China is to bomb all Chinese production. I don't care of seizing them, my only goal in this area is to interdict any offensive operations (on ground or in the air) by the Allied. So the Allied player should send planes to China's help or let Chinese armies starve.

A possible way of neutralizing this area would be to reset the original lines and then set both Allied and Japanese troops over computer control. Operations should then be limited by some air raids.

[Hoplosternum]

OK,

I understand String's points but due to his aggressive play we could not agree to only operating on the rail line as that means that the Chinese need not garisson their rear areas and can make even more attacks into our sector than are happening already [X(]

Even if no agreement can be reached there is no intention to use the Japanese forces in China to turn on Russia even if we gain the upper hand. Nor is their any real desire to knock out China or withdraw all Japanese troops from there should circumstances make this possible. We are aware that the Chinese theatre is likely a bit broken and WitP is at it's best as an air/naval simulation rather than as a large scale ground war one. It may be that even though historically the Japanese did little for the first few years of the war in China fighting it out may produce more balanced/historical results than a truce plus house rules on what can stay and what can go.

So we will fight on for a bit longer while we digest the comments of both friends and enemies over a few jars of ale. But I and my fellow commanders will think on it [:D]

[AmiralLaurent]

14 January 1942

Burma
In the morning, 65 Ki-21 escorted by 34 Oscars bombed the 2nd Burma Brigade in Moulmein.

Malaya
During the night, 4 Blenheim bombed Khota Bharu airfield while 6 Nells from Saigon bombed Singapore.
Singapore airmen were as active as ever. In the morning they bombed the airfield of Johore Bharu (6 Hudsons and 5 escorts) and the 23rd Bde in the suburbs of Singapore (65 B-17E and 59 escorts of 6 types) and sent a raid against shipping off Kuching (see Borneo part). In the afternoon, Il-4c took off again to Kuching but get lost while a bigger raid (9 P-40B, 4 Buffaloes, 12 LB-30, 4 Blenheim IV, 3 Il-4c) went after the convoy attacked yesterday SW of Saigon. They found it closer to Indochina coast, just west of Soc Trang, protected by 7 Zeroes. A short air battle saw 2 P-40B, 2 Zeroes and 1 Blenheim IV fall. The bombers attacked the convoy and two AP were damaged by the Liberators.
Japanese troops continued to reach the vicinity of Singapore but troops of both sides kept quiet during the day, nit even exchanging artillery fire.

Borneo
A Japanese convoy was attacked repeatedly during the day by escorted torpedo planes from Singkawang and Il-4c from Singapore. Some Zeroes were flying CAP but only intercepted the raid of the afternoon, shooting down 3 Brewster 339. Two AP were hit by several bombs in the morning, one by Vildebeests and the other by Il-4c.

PI
In the morning, 43 bombers from Aparri bombed Manila but didn’t hit anything.

Celebes
A Japanese NLF occupied Wasile during the day.
Japanese ships didn’t get closer from Kendari today and weren’t attacked by Allied planes. In the afternoon, the Kido Butai sent 21 Kates and 8 Zeroes bomb the airfield of Kendari

Australia
In the west, Japanese troops reached Broome, the last Allied place in the area.
In the east, Japanese troops from Wyndham and Allied troops retreating from Darwin reach at the same time the crossroads south of Darwin. So Allied troops will be able to escape. Japanese airmen in the area were unable to bomb them those last days for one reason or the other.

Rabaul
A FT TF lands Japanese troops on Sag Sag, on the western end of New Britain.

China
20 Chinese SB-2c bombed two Japanese divisions on the Changsha frontline and met 17 Nates and 4 Tojos flying CAP. Chinese fighters also fought and 3 Nates, 3 I-16c, 2 I-153c and 1 SB-2c were shot down.
In the south, 38 KI-48 and 11 Ki-51 from Canton bombed two Chinese Corps NW of the town.

Pacific
Allied engineers expand Midway port to size 2. A future submarine base ?

[String]

I guess we can congratulate the japanese commander on the lightning campaign in Malaya. Despite all of my efforts there was nothing I could do to even slow the japs down. We were lucky not to have the forces defending Kuantan encircled.

[AmiralLaurent]

15 January 1942

Burma
In the morning, 22 Ki-21 escorted by 3 Oscars bombed troops in Moulmein.

Malaya
During the night, 4 Blenheim bombed Khota Bharu airfield.
While heavy bombers were blasting Kuching (see below), tactical aircrfat from Singapore hit the troops beseieging the city. 70 medium bombers and 64 escorts attacked the Imperial Division. Japanese troops start to bombard the city. 4 divisions (Imp, 5th, 33th and 55th), 2 Bdes (21st and 23rd) and 2 Tk Rgt, 95000 able men, face the whole Malaya garrison, that managed to reach Singapore in totality : 12 Bdes, 1 AA Rgt, 11 BF and the Singapore Fortress, 65000 able men. Allied fortifications seem to be pretty good. 1003 Japanese guns fire at them and failed to hit any Allied soldier.
A dozen of small (1-3 ships) TF were reported off the port. Allied airforces still had local air superiority.

Borneo
In the morning, 83 B-17E and 37 LB-30 from Singapore raided the airfield of Kuching. Gunners shot down one of the 3 Zeroes trying to intercept and bombs destoryed 14 other on the ground. Japanese AA fire was better than usual and one of the B-17E hit crashed on the return leg.
Aircraft from Singkawang attacked a convoy just east of Kuching. The 3 T.Iva did a perfect attack, hitting an AP with 3 torpedoes. The 6 Swordfish missed and the 14 escorts had nothing to do.
South of the Island, Balikpapan airmen attacked a BB TF 120 miles SE of Tarakan. In the morning, 14 Beauforts escorted by 12 P-40 atacked 2 BBs and 2 cruisers and a torpedo hit the BB Mutsu, other missing the Nagato. One Beaufort was shot down by AA fire. 6 Beauforts returned in the afternoon and reported that Mutsu was lagging behind. They divided to attack both BBs but scored no more hit and lost again one plane and crew to AA fire. Shortly later, the SS Seawolf tried to achieve the Mutsu but was seen duing her approach by a DD and hit by a DC.

PI
Davao Allied troops (101st PA Div and 2 BF) were bombed by 15 Ki-48 and then attacked by 1 Tk Rgt, 2 SNLF and 1Eng Rgt. They gave up and Japan rounded up 7500 more POWs. The whole island of Mindanao is now occupied... sorry, liberated.

Celebes
The village of Galeia sent represantives to the Japanese lines to surrender and the whole of Morotai island is now under Imperial control.
Kendari was bombed during the night by 2 BBs, 1 CA and 5 DD. They destroyed 2 PBY and 1 Beaufort on the ground, hit an AK in the port and scored 107 runways hit. 638 casualties were counted on the Allied side. The base was later bomebd by 18 Kates. Japanese ships were sailing towards this base and in the evening some DDs chased an Allied submarine 180 miles SE of the port.

Australia
In Broome, Japanese troops (2/3 of 2nd Div) bombed the Allied garrison, a Base Force.
In the east, the 16th Japanese Div and support troops launched a shock attack against the survivors of the Darwin garrison and defeated them around the crossroads S opf Darwin. The y retreated towards Chartes Towers

Rabaul
A NLF occupied Sag Sag, on the western end of New Britain.

China
In the south, 33 KI-48 and 11 Ki-51 from Canton bombed two Chinese Corps NW of the town.
In the center, Japanese troops launched another deliberate attack at Changsha. Forts were reduced to level 3 by engineers. The battle oppsed 195000 Japanese and 152000 Chinese and was at 0 to 1. 5300 Japanese and 3160 Chinese laid on the battlefield at the end of the day.
In the north, Japanese troops advancing from Chengting had now reoccuppied the railway W of Kaifeng but hadn’t entered the town yet. She was apparently empty.

Japan
The CL Isuzu met a submarine near Okinawa but she dived before she could open fire with her guns. Isuzu left the area quickly, as she had no ASW escort.

Pacific
An USN surface TF (BB Colorado, 2 CA, 1 old CL and 6 DD) raided Wake in broad daylight. They met of the island a small convoy (2 AP, 2 MSW, 1 PG, 1 ML) but it scattered before they did great harm to it. A MSW was sunk, an AP heavily damaged and the other AP and the PG also hit.
But the real target of the American sailors was the island and they started to bombard it... only to be surprised by a rain of 5.5 in shells ! Those APs (and others) were busy carrying CD troops to this island since its fall one month ago (I think that Wake is the only place where an Allied counterlanding is possible in early 1942). 5 DDs were sunk and the last was badly damaged. The heavy ships were saved by their armor but the BB Colorado took 7 shells, the CA San Francisco 20, the CA Minneapolis 8 and the CL Concord 10. Japanese lost 9 guns and 456 casualties. Base was not hit at all, the whole USN fire being apparently directed towards the CD units to try to save the surprised DDs.

[tsimmonds]

Base was not hit at all, the whole USN fire being apparently directed towards the CD units to try to save the surprised DDs.

Uh-huh, I suspected that might be the case; if you want to protect your airbase from the nasty bombardment TFs, be sure to have CD present.

[String]

That CD fire at Wake was murderous, seems like the Wake garrison is paying back for what they suffered at the hands of the marine defenders back in december.

I don't know why the americans wanted to use their destroyers at bombardment work but i'm sure they had their reasons..

[String]

The naval battle that took place off Balikpapan today and the following airstrikes were a clear success for the ABDA command.

yesterday a large japanese taskforce was detected heading down the straits between borneo and Celebes, those ships were attacked and BB Mutsu was torpedoed. Suspecting another bombardment raid to Balikpapan the ABDA fleet with BB Prince of Wales was dispatched to intercept them.

The allied CinC had guessed correctly and at 0120 hours the radar on PoW detected the japanese fleet. The surprised japanese ships were soon taken under fire but the range was too great to inflict any serious damage. Soon the range was closed to 6000 yards however and BB Nagato took a hit by a 14" shell from Prince of Wales.

Japanese fleet, undeterred returned fire and launched tens of torpedoes at the allied ships. DD Yugumo succesfully torpedoed CL Danae and one of the heavy cruisers put a fish into CA Houston. The Houston was subsequently taken under fire by the japanese 8" guns and suffered several direct and penetrating hits. CA Cornwall also took a few hits but suffered less damage. The fire returned was ineffective, only a few secondary gun hits which failed to penetrate.

Meanwhile the allied light cruisers duelled with their japanese counterparts and destroyers. Being a lot more succesful they damaged CL Jintsu and reduced DD Maikaze and DD Michishio to flaming hulks.

The hero of the night was HMS Prince of Wales. She took BB Nagato under heavy and accurate fire and scored four 14" hits which all penetrated and caused heavy damage to the japanese flagship. The speed of Nagato was reduced to mere 15 knots and that was what doomed her.

The Taskforces broke off after only 30 minutes of combat but the damage was done. Morning found the Nagato limping back towards japanese bases just 120 miles from Balikpapan airfields. She was quickly detected by dutch patrol planes and was attacked twice. The morning strike delivered two 18" torpedoes to her already damaged hulls and left her dead in the water. In the afternoon another strike hit her with a 450mm torpedo and another 18" fish. Finally succumbing to her wounds she capsised and sank. The Royal Navy, together with the RDAF, RAF and RAAF had sank the biggest and most powerful japanese battleship, the first ship in the world to sport 16" guns.


In other news the japanese bombarded Tarakan by night, finally landed at kendari, during which CA Aoba was hit by a mine and attacked fleeing ships near Wake island. All bombs missed.

RAF and USAAF attacked japanese ground troops advancing at singapore. Kuantan Airfield was also hit.

Night Time Surface Combat, near Balikpapan at 31,64

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
CA Takao, Shell hits 1
CA Atago, Shell hits 7
CL Sendai
CL Jintsu, Shell hits 5, on fire
DD Yugumo
DD Maikaze, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DD Oshio
DD Michishio, Shell hits 15, on fire, heavy damage
DD Minegumo, Shell hits 3

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales
CA Houston, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CA Cornwall, Shell hits 2, on fire
CL De Ruyter, Shell hits 3
CL Enterprise, Shell hits 2
CL Danae, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Dragon
CL Durban
CL Mauritius
CL Marblehead, Shell hits 3
DD Stronghold
DD Tenedos
DD Thanet, Shell hits 1
DD Electra
DD Jupiter

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Day Air attack on TF at 33,64


Allied aircraft
Swordfish x 8
Hawk 75A x 13
T.IVa x 3
Beaufort V-IX x 12
P-40E Warhawk x 11


Allied aircraft losses
T.IVa: 2 destroyed
Beaufort V-IX: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Michishio, on fire, heavy damage

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Day Air attack on TF at 33,64


Allied aircraft
Swordfish x 6
Hawk 75A x 8
T.IVa x 2
Beaufort V-IX x 15
P-40E Warhawk x 12


Allied aircraft losses
T.IVa: 1 damaged
Beaufort V-IX: 5 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

[AmiralLaurent]

16 January 1942

Burma
Nothing to report

Malaya
Bad weather cancelled night flying operations from Singapore.
In the morning, 30 LB-30 bombed Kuantan airfield, for once destroyed no aircraft on the ground but inflicted 230 casualties to Japanese forces.
At the same time, 68 B-17E, 60 medium bombers and 65 fighters were active over Singapore and attacked two Japanese divisions. Japanese troops continue to pound the city with artillery.

Borneo
Allied newspapers (above) have allready described well the naval battle off Balikpapan. At the same time, 7 cruisers were bombarding Tarakan, where 115 Allied casualties were counted.
After dawn, the damaged ships were chased by Allied submarines and aircraft. Two Dutch submarines engaged the ships but neither side scored hits. Airmen were more successfull. In the morning 3 Beauforts torpedoed the damaged DD Maikaze off the peninsula S of Tarakan while 12 Beauforts, 3 T.IVa and 8 Sworfishes attacked the BB Nagato and scored two hits for one loss to AA (1 T.IVa). Torpedo planes returned in the afternoon and scored two more hits and the BB sink
On the north coast of Borneo, a damaged Japanese AP sand during the night between Kuching and Brunei.
In the afternoon 9 Vildebeests from Singkawang divebombed Kuching airfield. AA shot down one.

PI
During the day, Japanese troops landed in Taytay, Palawan Island.

Celebes
The Japanese invasion fleet arrived during the night off Kendari, that was at the same time bombarded by 2 BBs and 1 CA, that hit two docked AK and disabled 159 troops. CD guns and mines were encountered by the fleet. The only Japanese ship hit was the CA Aoba that hits a Dutch mine. The 56th Bde came ashore all day long. Facing her are 3 infantry batallions and 2 Base Forces.

Australia
Broome was taken during the day by the 2nd Japanese Division. The 107 RAAF Base Force surrendered (2900 POWs). The whole NE coast was now under Japanese control and Allied troops were apparently fleeing from the area.

New Guinea - Rabaul
Japanese engineers finished to build torpedo workshops in Rabaul (AF is now size 4).

Pacific
I-171 attacked during the night a convoy W from Noumea and sank a fully-laden AK. Allied escorts have been reinforced and 3 DD chased her but she escaped unscathed.
Betties have flown to Wake to hit fleeing Allied ships. They found the main body 300 miles SE of the island, so damage might been more important that was thought as these ships should be able to sail faster. 11 Betties dropped bombs (no torpedo yet in Wake, AF size 3) on Colorado and cruisers and missed. But in the same time, 5 Betties were sinking the last damaged DD of the force 120 miles E of Wake. So contrary to Allied propaganda, all bombs didn't miss.

China
Japanese aircraft bombed Chinese HQ units NW of Canton (35 Ki-48 and 11 Ki-51) and Hsinyang (13 Ki-51).
A Chinese fighter scored his second kill, a Japanese recon plane, over Changsha.
Japanese artillery pounded Changsha.
Japanese troops entered again the hexes of Hsinyang and Kaifeng and reported no Chinese troops nearby.

Japan
SS Gudgeon missed a TK SW of Kagoshima. ASW escorts have also been reinforced here and 3 ships searched her but she escaped.

[String]

Btw, today is my birthday so i take it as a nice present [:D]

[String]

Btw, could someone refresh my memory .. what kind of house rules did we have? [:D]

[AmiralLaurent]

None I can remember of.

Maybe limiting ASW TF to 6 ships but Japan has not enough ASW ships to have more and Allied don't need more ships to be sure to sink IJN subs.

I am strongly for a home rule to not use B-17 for mass night bombings. My home rule is to use only one squadron (not a group) per starting base to fly at night. So you may send ten squadrons over the same target if you want but at least AA guns will fire and results are not so awful.

[String]

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent

None I can remember of.

Maybe limiting ASW TF to 6 ships but Japan has not enough ASW ships to have more and Allied don't need more ships to be sure to sink IJN subs.

I am strongly for a home rule to not use B-17 for mass night bombings. My home rule is to use only one squadron (not a group) per starting base to fly at night. So you may send ten squadrons over the same target if you want but at least AA guns will fire and results are not so awful.

hmn, yes. Well I personally won't be using heavy bombers at night bombing to reduce enemy bases. Maybe a raid here or there..

[AmiralLaurent]

ORIGINAL: String

Btw, today is my birthday so i take it as a nice present [:D]

Happy birthday.

I will send you some hundred of torpedoes as my present.

[dirtyharry500]

Pacific
Allied engineers expand Midway port to size 2. A future submarine base ?
may be laurent [8D] it's a long way to victory and the boys are involved in contruction works to prepare the final victory !!

[dirtyharry500]

well done string! Z force are our heroes[:)]

[dirtyharry500]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY STRING i'm drinking a german beer to bring a toast to Z force and the good ally yu are[:)]

[dirtyharry500]

ORIGINAL: String

That CD fire at Wake was murderous, seems like the Wake garrison is paying back for what they suffered at the hands of the marine defenders back in december.

I don't know why the americans wanted to use their destroyers at bombardment work but i'm sure they had their reasons..

i used DDs to protect main ships against subs but next time i'll toggle "escort do not bombard"[:(]

[dirtyharry500]

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent


Pacific
An USN surface TF (BB Colorado, 2 CA, 1 old CL and 6 DD) raided Wake in broad daylight. They met of the island a small convoy (2 AP, 2 MSW, 1 PG, 1 ML) but it scattered before they did great harm to it. A MSW was sunk, an AP heavily damaged and the other AP and the PG also hit.
But the real target of the American sailors was the island and they started to bombard it... only to be surprised by a rain of 5.5 in shells ! Those APs (and others) were busy carrying CD troops to this island since its fall one month ago (I think that Wake is the only place where an Allied counterlanding is possible in early 1942). 5 DDs were sunk and the last was badly damaged. The heavy ships were saved by their armor but the BB Colorado took 7 shells, the CA San Francisco 20, the CA Minneapolis 8 and the CL Concord 10. Japanese lost 9 guns and 456 casualties. Base was not hit at all, the whole USN fire being apparently directed towards the CD units to try to save the surprised DDs.

yep yur CDs were a bad surprise because recon is not so accurate
and i 've forgotten to toggle escort do not bombard but : one of these days [:)]