Canuck's Revenge - ADavidB vs PzB (Wobbly's game continued)

[ADavidB]

PzB floated a continuation of the game after a 4-1 loss, will you take him up on this (presuming you don't manage to undo him getting there)?

Assuming that we don't run into too many more "Soviet takeover"-type bugs I'm curious to see how far we can take this thing.

I think that it is a shame that the game contains a number of arbitrary rules that are inconsistantly applied, but it looks like a lot of people like the "play balance" rules, so I doubt that they will be changed. That's a pity.

I'm also curious to see what the next revision brings and if we can upgrade the current game. There are a lot of small problems with CTDs, vanishing maps, and extraneous units (enemy air units showing up when I scroll through my air units) and so on for which I have a set of regular work-arounds that I use. Will that situation get better or worse? Only time and another version release will tell.

Dave Baranyi

[Monter_Trismegistos]

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

[...]What really ticks me off is another of the "as designed features" of the game - now all of the troops, planes and ships that are supposed to arrive in Karachi are listed as arriving at "unknown" and according to Frag, will stay there until I "recapture" Karachi.

If I remember correctly, this sort of idiocy existed in Pacwar too. Unfortunately, there does not appear to be any intention by the powers-that-be to attempt to make this a little more "realistic".[...]

I think that realistic is as it is now - the Britons were wiped out from SE Asia - so why they should commit more forces to this theater? As far as i understand you, you are expecting that those divisions, ships and airgroups - which were to arrive in Karachi - should be arriving in San Francisco? It's stupid - Britons sending divisions to U.S ? Quite unrealistic to me. The same thing with planes and ships...

[ADavidB]

I think that realistic is as it is now - the Britons were wiped out from SE Asia - so why they should commit more forces to this theater? As far as i understand you, you are expecting that those divisions, ships and airgroups - which were to arrive in Karachi - should be arriving in San Francisco? It's stupid - Britons sending divisions to U.S ? Quite unrealistic to me. The same thing with planes and ships...

If you look at the ships, planes and troops that are supposed to go to Karachi, a number of them are American, Australian units and even Canadian units - there aren't just Brit units.

The general consensus here appears to be that they shouldn't be redeployed within the useful range of the Allied player. That makes no sense to me - I would expect that the US would have moved even more troops to the West Coast after the fall of India - they were totally paranoid at the time about a potential invasion of the US.

However, this is how the game is designed, and as a number of players have said, it gives a bonus to the Japanese player for being aggressive.

Dave Baranyi

[String]

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

I think that realistic is as it is now - the Britons were wiped out from SE Asia - so why they should commit more forces to this theater? As far as i understand you, you are expecting that those divisions, ships and airgroups - which were to arrive in Karachi - should be arriving in San Francisco? It's stupid - Britons sending divisions to U.S ? Quite unrealistic to me. The same thing with planes and ships...

If you look at the ships, planes and troops that are supposed to go to Karachi, a number of them are American, Australian units and even Canadian units - there aren't just Brit units.

The general consensus here appears to be that they shouldn't be redeployed within the useful range of the Allied player. That makes no sense to me - I would expect that the US would have moved even more troops to the West Coast after the fall of India - they were totally paranoid at the time about a potential invasion of the US.

However, this is how the game is designed, and as a number of players have said, it gives a bonus to the Japanese player for being aggressive.

Dave Baranyi

however we could assume that they were sent to garrison places outside the map edge. Persia, east africa or arabian gulf. Maps edge really has a nasty effect on wargames, realistically there should be an exit hex somewhere on the maps edge where the ground units could move into presia and into the pool for karachi with a delay of, say 360 days.

[ADavidB]

September 25 was pretty quiet, other than my daily air raid on Koepang, my Indian refugees bombing Hanoi and PzB's trainees bombing various Chinese ground units. I'm resting my heavy bombers while I get more air support troops in place as well as move air HQs around. I'm getting more key bases "topped off" with air support troops as well as getting other smaller air support groups in mutually supporting positions. I want to be able to seriously damage any naval movements into my perimeter, even if the KB ventures out.

Those two Japanese PTs are still sitting between Lautem and Kendari. Are they out of fuel or are they coming back for another try? This time I'm not sending my carrier TF out after them - I'll let my own PTs stand and fight. Anyway, the tanker TF has moved off to fuel another base.

Some of my stragglers in Northern India are starting to move, so maybe they won't need an Indian base to move to afterall. Unfortunately, the units that are not engaged with Japanese troops are all non-combatants. I'm going to see just how far I can move them before they wither and die. Of course, if PzB sends some of his units up one of the north-south roads in northern India he will cut my troops off, but I'm hoping that he doesn't realize that I've got a "broken leg roach escape" going on up there. PzB hasn't moved his 41 units out of Karachi yet - he is probably luxuriating in all that supply. He had better be careful or his units in Karachi will suck all his replacements dry.

Otherwise, I'm just waiting to see what happens when P-38s start to show up in October. Hopefully there won't be any glitches. (Thank God that Lockheed was located in Long Beach, CA and not India. [:)])

Dave Baranyi

[sveint]

David,

What are your plans for Java? What forces do you have there?

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: sveint

David,

What are your plans for Java? What forces do you have there?

I have all the original land forces that PzB landed there - infantry, armor, engineers, a CD or two and so on. (I can't remember exactly at the moment.) It's not a bad force and I've rested it was well as possible. I've also been building up my bases and conserving supplies.

I can now bring in large numbers of bombers if I wish, as well as some fighters, but I don't want to at this time because I'm not ready to start a major war of attrition there. I want to see where PzB commits his forces first. This also gives me more flexibility in how I take advantage of opportunities.

I intend to leave Java as a "big temptation" for PzB while I build up my capabilities in Northern Australia and Timor. When I first took over the game there weren't enough bases in Java that could handle bombers - that situation has changed. I am also getting close to being able to cover my southern approaches - PzB ambushed both Wobbly and me from the South - he won't get away with it this time.

But most of PzB's efforts appear to be directed at the Central Pacific at the moment - he has a lot of ship traffic going between Truk and the Admiralty Islands. I'm not interferring with him at the moment because I don't want to give too much of a hint as to my own moves in the region. But I'm near to being able to maintain serious operations in all four key regions - Gilberts/Marshalls, Solomons, PNG and Northern Oz/Timor - simultaneously, and I think that PzB will be quite surprised at the quantity of forces I can muster in all four regions. (I actually got a lot of forces out of the debacle in the DEI and they are back in position to affect things in a big way.)

Thanks for the comments -

Dave Baranyi

[ADavidB]

September 26th was relatively quiet again. PzB is now busy doing what I have been doing for the past 2 1/2 game months - repositioning forces. He still has his 40+ LCUs in Karachi, but he is bringing a lot of combat ships out of there, as well as planes. Some Helens spotted one of my subs near Truk this turn - that is the first time I've seen Helens in the Central Pacific.

I've been playing "Mephostopheles" to PzB's "Dr. Faustus" by "tempting" him with the thought that he could well be the first player to get a 4:1 point win in January 1943 by taking the "safe" approach and simply hunting down my stragglers in northern India. I'm not sure that he is buying it - all that supply and fuel in Karachi is rekindling his ambitions... but he may well be underestimating the forces that I have at hand now. I am now even in the position in which I can pull back "tired" forces from the front to rebuild them and reuse them elsewhere.

BTW - I sent a bombardment TF into Munda and it appears that there are no troops and no mines. So as soon as I have my transports in position, I am sending a force in there. In the meanwhile, I have a base force and a good combat unit in Tulagi and another base force on the way to Russell Islands, so soon I will have three operational bases from which to control the Eastern and Central Solomons. PzB is resorting to sending barges to bring supplies in to his bases in the western Solomons.

In the meanwhile, I continue to bomb Koepang and Lae on a near daily basis - they aren't going to bother me from either base in the near future.

Dave Baranyi

[ADavidB]

Yet another "boring" but important day as I continue to bring forces to where I want them. I also got an important bit of info - PzB is reinforcing Torokina, not Shortlands! I found out the "fun way":

Day Air attack on TF, near Torokina at 63,92

Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 4
B-26B Marauder x 28

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
PG Hakkai Maru, Bomb hits 1
AG AG-351
AG AG-117, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

One of those barges sank as PzB found out the "hard way" that I can hit Torokina from Lunga. I can also hit it from PM, but I'm resting those B-17s to use to hit Rabaul once I have my troops landing on Gili-Gili.

One other interesting thing - PzB put some planes in Karachi:

Day Air attack on Madras Construction Regiment, at 22,1

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 29

No Japanese losses

I guess that he intends to use it as a training base just as he has China.

I need a couple more weeks of this relative quiet and I'll be in a position to surprise PzB quite nicely. Will he give it too me? We'll see.

Dave Baranyi

[ADavidB]

September 28 was another quiet turn as we both continue to set up for future action. PzB is working hard to prevent me from going after his key bases. I'm working equally hard to take lots of small, obscure bases that my bulldozer-equipped engineering groups can turn into nice, solid mid-sized bases very quickly and from which I can eventually isolate and bomb his big bases back to the stone age.

I loaded the transports this turn for Gili-Gili. I also sent my B-17s off against PzB's dispersed air bases north of Rabaul. I want to start to pound them before he brings his planes in. In two more turns I'll send off the transports against Munda. They ought to get there just as PzB gets nicely wound up at trying to stop my attack at Gili-Gili. And once he also reacts to Munda I'll send the fast transports off to grab some of the empty bases on the other side of Timor.

What will I do, you may ask, if he doesn't react to my invasions of Gili-Gili and Munda? Well, in that case I'll postpone the invasions to the north of Timor and grab more small bases that are near to Gili-Gili and Munda. I've got plenty of engineers on the way, more alomst done in the Gilberts and more showing up soon on the West coast. I am now turning this into a "base building war", and I expect that I ought to be able to do well at that.

So how soon before I start to get reasonable numbers of P-38s? (He ponders while licking his lips in anticipation)...[:D]

BTW - my Indian refugees got off a nice air raid on one of PzB's training bases:

Day Air attack on Rahaeng , at 31,35

Japanese aircraft
Ki-27 Nate x 4

Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 31

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-27 Nate: 1 damaged
A6M2 Zero: 6 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Wellington III: 3 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 4
Runway hits 10

That ought to make him stop and take note.

My B-26s in Lunga also found the range on another barge at Torokina:

Day Air attack on TF, near Torokina at 63,92

Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 6
B-26B Marauder x 15

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AG AG-123
PG Hakkai Maru
AG AG-351, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AG AG-353

That AG later sank. Sure, I don't get points for AGs, but my planes get experience, PzB doesn't get the supplies that were on board and PzB spent other supply points to create that barge.

Dave Baranyi

[ADavidB]

PzB and I will both be away from our respective PCs for a while - I'm going off on business trip for a couple of days and PzB is going on a week's holiday, IIRC. So when we get back we'll have to try to remember where we were and what we were doing. That will be particularly hard at this time because things are fairly quiet and we're primarily just setting things up for future action.

So September 28th saw more air action, and a bit of sub-chasing by PzB, but nothing too exciting. My air attack plan out of PM did work quite well. Sure enough, PzB had his fighters in Rabaul. But he had Bettys on the ground in Kavieng without any CAP:

Day Air attack on Kavieng , at 61,86

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 3 destroyed, 8 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 8 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
31 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 9

Cool - I keep on catching him like this. He will have to decide to either split his CAP amongst all of his air bases or let me bomb his LBA into the ground. Of course, he really doesn't want to split his CAP, because only by ganging up does he have a chance. I love to put such cunumdrums to him. [:D]

Wait until he finds some P-38s coming along with the B-17s...

Dave Baranyi

[Tom Hunter]

You get 80 P38s a turn starting in October, but you knew that.

I am in August and I can hardly wait for the damn things, I am very tired of KB driving around laughing while my bombers cower on the airfields.

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

You get 80 P38s a turn starting in October, but you knew that.

I am in August and I can hardly wait for the damn things, I am very tired of KB driving around laughing while my bombers cower on the airfields.

I find that experience makes a big difference - get the bomber groups good practice on land targets and then give them some even "ordinary" escorts and they can do you proud. I'm not counting on the P-38s making the difference - they will just be the icing on the cake. And I'll have to get the P-38s some practice to start with too.

Dave Baranyi

[ADavidB]

September 30 got even quieter. I guess our troops are also getting ready to take some time off...[>:]

PzB is sending lots of AGs from Truk to Rabaul and vicinity. Cool - that means that he is wary of my tacair ability. That's good, because it means that I have a better chance of getting my troops into Gili-Gili and Munda without much interference. Likewise, he hasn't sent any planes against Rossel despite the unprotected transport TF that is sitting there very slowly unloading supplies. Rossel is currently a "0" port so unloading takes for-ev-er. I have an engineering unit with bulldozers on the way to help the existing base force speed things up. But I already have a patrol unit there, as I do in a number of other locations from the south-central coast of PNG to the Solomons. PzB won't be sailing much in the region that I don't detect.

The Gili-Gili invasion force is halfway there. I have a combat TF leading the way, with a carrier TF moving in position to "discourage" Bettys. The Munda invasion force has also set sail. I'll have a couple of new fast battleships in Lunga just around the time the Munda force shows up too. And I have base forces and Seabees on the way.

BTW - a couple of turns ago, for the first time, one of my TFs between Pearl and Palmyra was scouted by a Glen. So PzB has finally sent a sub into the Eastern Pacific. But I don't have a lot of TFs sailing the southern route right now since I have control of the Gilberts. PzB has put another sub between Tawara and Nauru, but I'll just send another ASW force after it.

It's odd, but PzB's ASW has been quite good in this game and the Allied ASW has been fairly inept. I guess it goes to show how important experience is to ASW - my ships are newer at it.

Otherwise there was just the usual aerial bombardments in the usual places. PzB hasn't been bombing Java recently, and thanks to that respite, my one non-coastal air base has finally moved to level 4. Now I have a good place to bring in bombers if I want. But right now I would much rather bomb Timor and vicinity as well as Rabaul and vicinity.

Dave Baranyi

[Zeta16]

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

You get 80 P38s a turn starting in October, but you knew that.

I am in August and I can hardly wait for the damn things, I am very tired of KB driving around laughing while my bombers cower on the airfields.

I think he means a month.

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: Zeta16

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

You get 80 P38s a turn starting in October, but you knew that.

I am in August and I can hardly wait for the damn things, I am very tired of KB driving around laughing while my bombers cower on the airfields.

I think he means a month.

Yeah, too bad. Eighty P-38s per day and I'd be in Tokyo by Christmas 42. [:D]

Dave Baranyi

[ADavidB]

So I'm back from spending too many hours yesterday in meetings and too many hours today in airports.

October 1 brought me 2 P-38s. I assume that rate will increase so that I get my "80" for the month. BTW - I've got a P-39 squadron in Pearl that has "P-39D" as it's upgrade path. I guess that I'm stuck with those guys.

Otherwise things are continuing to be quiet. PzB might just be moving some combat ships up north a bit in response to all of my activity in the Aleutians. It would be neat if he would try some raids there - I might be able to get local superiority.

I've finally got more air support troops unloading in Darwin - that ought to "top off" the base and allow better air campaigns. I'm debating moving more air combat troops into the other northern Australian bases because they are malarial. I've got the ships that are going to Gili-Gili set to return to Port Moresby after unloading. It's closer than Oz in case PzB does decide to contest the landing, and if he doesn't damage the ships I'll pull back more worn-out troops out of PM for R&R back in non-malarial Australia.

I also now have a fast battleship in the combat TF in Lunga, and I'm sending another along to join in PM the ships that will bombard Gili-Gili this coming turn. I now have battleships in all of my critical combat areas.

Now for an extended break as I wait for PzB to come back from carousing for the rest of the week.

Dave Baranyi

[ADavidB]

So after a week our titantic struggle continues...

...with long range bombing and not much else. My Gili-Gili invasion didn't reach Gili-Gili yet, but it will on October 3.

PzB has started to recon the Solomons a lot. That's fine, I'm moving more troops in and I'll have two invasions hitting opposite ends very soon. I'm also resting my LBA in PM to hit Rabaul next turn. This turn my LBA in Tarawa hit Maloelap nicely:

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 82

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 13 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
60 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 12
Airbase supply hits 12
Runway hits 49

He isn't bothering to put fighters in there now. That's good, it gives me more freedom of action in the Gilberts. PzB is sending another sub to the Gilberts - he'll probably drop a few more mines again, after which my minesweepers will sweep them out. I don't really mind - my ships are getting experience and his subs aren't attacking my transports.

Otherwise things were quiet everywhere except for China/Burma/India where PzB continues to "train" air crews. Cool - by the time he pulls those "trained" planes to the front I'll have very well trained BIG bomber groups and a few twin-tail "surprises" for him too...[:D]

It will be interesting to see how PzB reacts to my "adventuring" in the Solomons. Will he try to intervene or will he continue with his defensive build-up in the Central Pacific. And of course, what will he eventually do about Java?

To be continued...

Dave Baranyi

[ADavidB]

For the first time on October 3 my troops are going in against a contested base. The invasion of Gili-Gili has started. PzB has few troops there. I bombarded them a couple of times and they've been pretty much isolated for the past couple of months so it will be interesting to see how well they hold up. In the meanwhile my other invasion force continues to steam towards Munda which I believe to be unoccupied.

PzB felt that his bombers were rested enough this turn so he sent his Sallys at Tjilitjap but not before sending in the fighters:

Day Air attack on Tjilitjap , at 19,62

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 36
Ki-46-II Dinah x 1

Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Tomahawk: 8 destroyed

Day Air attack on Tjilitjap , at 19,62

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 17

Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Tomahawk: 3 destroyed

Day Air attack on Tjilitjap , at 19,62

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21 Sally x 137
Ki-49 Helen x 17

Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 2 destroyed, 13 damaged
Ki-49 Helen: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Tomahawk: 1 damaged
A-20B Boston: 9 destroyed, 4 damaged

Allied ground losses:
25 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 6
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 28

I'm deliberately not allowing aircraft replacements in Java. What planes there get repaired but I'm not interested in getting involved in a war of attrition when the odds are in his favor. But all-in-all my bases in Java continue to build themselves slowly and present PzB with something that he can't quite ignore.

One interesting move that PzB has started is that he has troops on the march from Tricomalee to Columbo. Cool, my troops are well rested, have lots of supply and are well fortified. Just to add to the "fun", I've just flown back my Wellingtons out of China and have them on "naval attack". PzB has at least one slow transport TF sailing south so maybe my boys will get a few free shots at them. [:D]

So things continue along. I wonder if PzB is really going to continue to avoid the temptation to attack into my strength?

Dave Baranyi

[ADavidB]

Okay, so PzB wasn't defending it in any serious manner, but never-the-less, on October 4, 1942 the Allies got their first significant strategic gain since I took over.

Hmmm - wait a minute, maybe that's not saying a lot...[&:]

Ah, what the hey, my troops went in and "kicked butt" - granted it wasn't a lot of Japanese butts, but after months of disasters it still feels good. [:'(]

I started out with a bombardment which told PzB more about my local capabilties that maybe I should have:

Naval bombardment of Gili Gili, at 56,94

Allied Ships
DD Ralph Talbot
DD O'Bannon
DD Nicholas
CA Salt Lake City
BB South Dakota

Japanese ground losses:
198 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Port hits 1
Port supply hits 1

But it ought to make him think a bit to see a US fast BB in the region.

Then my troops went into action:

Ground combat at Gili Gili

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 4819 troops, 71 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 554 troops, 3 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 4 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Gili Gili base !!!

Allied ground losses:
5 casualties reported

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

A good use of force. No overkill, no underestimate. The Japanese troops are trying to go to Dobradura (sp?) Good, they can eat jungle for a while. Which reminds me, I've got to replace those paratroops in Timor with regular troops and get the paras ready for a drop on "Doby Gillis".

PzB's LBA did try to attack:

Day Air attack on TF, near Gili Gili at 56,94

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 6

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 16 destroyed, 2 damaged

Thanks for the practice! On the other hand, a few more Betty's did go after my ships at Rossel:

Day Air attack on TF, near Rossel Island at 58,97

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Murada, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet

It will be interesting to see how long the Murada lasts. I formed it into it's own TF with it's target and "home base" set to Rossel and will see how much unloads. I need to get more SeaBees into the region so that I can build up bases faster - the base force at Rossel is doing the best that it can, but it needs help.

In the meanwhile, PzB has more and more TFs going into the region, particularly into Kavieng. BTW - I sent B-17s out of Port Moresby to hit Rabaul, Kavieng and the Admiralty Islands, but few bombers flew (try to say that quickly in repitition [:D]) so there wasn't much effect. But it does warn PzB not to leave his air bases unguarded.

BTW - my movement of the Wellingtons from China to Colombo worked out quite nicely [:D]

First try to get the range:

Day Air attack on TF at 11,18

Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 24

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AP Niitaka Maru
PG Shinko Maru #5
AP Yosyu Maru
PG Hayakafuku Maru
AP Yamato Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
PG Kozan Maru

Japanese ground losses:
26 casualties reported

Practice makes perfect:

Day Air attack on TF at 11,18

Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 23

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
PG Yoshida Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Osaka Maru
PG Hayakafuku Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Yosyu Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
PG Kozan Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Yamato Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Japanese ground losses:
96 casualties reported

His TF is now heading west to try to get away from the bombers. Cool - but I've already moved the bombers back to China. So PzB will undoubtably hit Colombo, but it's too late now.

BTW II - My second invasion force ought to hit Munda next turn. I've also move a fresh B-24 group into Lunga. I hope to give PzB an "unpleasant surprise" when Rabaul starts to get bombed from that direction too.

Unfortunately, all this fun is coming at a slower pace because "Real Life" is taking a toll on PzB's "Game Life" and he is only able to do a turn per day. And in a week and a half I will be off with the "Better (non-gaming) Half" on a two week holiday in which neither of us will have PCs, cellphones, Blackberries and what ever. Hmmm... there will be nothing to do but have sex every night...

Dave Baranyi