Manouver

[Lokioftheaesir]

Hi all

I'd like to ask a question. If i use high detail in my combat reports and i've attacked a hex with air support i notice that certain planes (defenders, ie FW190a) seem to bypass the fighters and hit the bombers. This is a function of the relative manouver ratings is it not?

Nick

PS. The FW-190a must be(and i'm quite sure this has beeb mentioned before) the most potent weapon besides the He177 in the axis arsenal. In one game i'm playing i've spent game YEARS working out how to stay out of it's reach (14 damm hexes, i'll remember that number till i'm a hundred and two)

PPS. Also i have noticed this. If you have say 300 active fighters in an air group you will cause more ememy losses if there are 3 fighter types in that group than you would with only one. The types are (clumped, put, packed,?) together and 3 x 3 different types causes more casualties than all one type. Then again, you will suffer more losses yourself in this case. An example from a pbem game , Air front one with 1 La5Fn,2Yak9 and 1 Yak9t will always destroy more german planes than air front 2 with 4 x Yak9 alone. Overwhelming numbers seem to have little effect.

[ August 20, 2001: Message edited by: Lokioftheaesir ]</p>

[Ranger-75]

I have seen this happen in Pacific War too, on both sides, I might add. I see Jap A6M2s bypass scores of P-40s and go right at my bombers and I sometimes see my P-40s and F4Fs go past the zeros and dig into the bettys, Vals, & Kates like the zeroes weren't there.

I believe it might have something to do with the relative experience of the fighter units involved. Maybe past a certain threshold of experience(difference), the intercepting fighters can "sneak" past the relativelty inexperienced escorts. I can't confirm since I can't see the enemy experience levels.

[Svar]

Originally posted by Lokioftheaesir:
Hi all


PPS. Also i have noticed this. If you have say 300 active fighters in an air group you will cause more ememy losses if there are 3 fighter types in that group than you would with only one. The types are (clumped, put, packed,?) together and 3 x 3 different types causes more casualties than all one type. Then again, you will suffer more losses yourself in this case. An example from a pbem game , Air front one with 1 La5Fn,2Yak9 and 1 Yak9t will always destroy more german planes than air front 2 with 4 x Yak9 alone. Overwhelming numbers seem to have little effect.

[ August 20, 2001: Message edited by: Lokioftheaesir ]

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Lokioftheaesir,

The front with the La-5FN has one group with a maneuver rating 23 versus all the others with maneuver ratings of 21. While that will help, the Yak-9T with a cannon rating of 12 versus the Yak-9 cannon rating of 6 is probably the biggest contributer. Why do you think that the Fw-190a with a cannon rating if 13 does so much damage to your fighter groups?

Svar

PS. Wait until you see the Me-262 if you think the Fw-190a is good. Maneuver rating of 30, cannon rating of 20 and a range of 15.

[ August 20, 2001: Message edited by: Svar ]</p>

[BrickReid]

Just a note when deciding what to use against Allied Strategic Bombing (before the long range escorts show up). Pick the fighter with the highest cannon rating and ignore the maneuver rating. Big cannons are what knocks down those bombers.

In my Eastern Front HQs, I like to take a Fighter Bomber unit and have it marked for Ground Attack. That way, when the fighters slip past my escort they always hit the "bombers" that can fight back first. I've saved a lot of Ju-88s and Stukas that way. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[ August 21, 2001: Message edited by: BrickReid ]</p>

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by Lokioftheaesir:
Hi all

I'd like to ask a question. If i use high detail in my combat reports and i've attacked a hex with air support i notice that certain planes (defenders, ie FW190a) seem to bypass the fighters and hit the bombers. This is a function of the relative manouver ratings is it not?

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I don't know for a fact, but my guess is that its not based on maneuver but other factors like experience, weather, fighter range, and bomber range.

PPS. Also i have noticed this. If you have say 300 active fighters in an air group you will cause more ememy losses if there are 3 fighter types in that group than you would with only one. The types are (clumped, put, packed,?) together and 3 x 3 different types causes more casualties than all one type. Then again, you will suffer more losses yourself in this case. An example from a pbem game , Air front one with 1 La5Fn,2Yak9 and 1 Yak9t will always destroy more german planes than air front 2 with 4 x Yak9 alone. Overwhelming numbers seem to have little effect.

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I tried real quick with the '41 campaign to test this but I couldn't see a difference, but maybe its visible only with better planes and more experienced fighters on both sides.

There was a time when overwhelming numbers mattered, but this was unrealsitic given what the small German fighter air groups could do to the Soviets. This was changed to make experience more important allowing 30+ plane German fighter groups repulse 100+ inexperienced Soviet fighters.

[Lokioftheaesir]

Originally posted by Svar:


Lokioftheaesir,

The front with the La-5FN has one group with a maneuver rating 23 versus all the others with maneuver ratings of 21. While that will help, the Yak-9T with a cannon rating of 12 versus the Yak-9 cannon rating of 6 is probably the biggest contributer. Why do you think that the Fw-190a with a cannon rating if 13 does so much damage to your fighter groups?

Svar

PS. Wait until you see the Me-262 if you think the Fw-190a is good. Maneuver rating of 30, cannon rating of 20 and a range of 15.

[ August 20, 2001: Message edited by: Svar ]

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Svar

'Wait untill you see...' Oh bloody great.

Nick

[Ranger-75]

I agree with Ed, experience plays a great deal in this, yet another instance of undocumented game details that never made it into the manuals. Also having more interceptor groups than escort groups will help.

Once the fighters and bombers get down with it though, its the cannon ratings that determine the damage.