Whats the point of Malta?

[aletoledo]

I've tried to put many different types of units onto malta and nothing seems to produce an op-fire condition. is there something about this place that I'm missing? or is it just a safe harbor?

[Uncle_Joe]

I *believe* that there is currently a glitch concerning Op Fire and islands. From what I understand, Op Fire from islands should also be targeting supplies moving past them. This would mean that the Axis would have a very hard time supplying North Africa past Malta. It also gives more meaning to the 'island hopping' in the Pacific as you wouldnt be able to just bypass all the little islands in the Pacific.

I'm not exactly sure what type and how effective the Op Fire is supposed to be for moving supplies. It was only alluded to in my post concerning the course of the Pacific war.

[Espejo]

Hmmm, strange manual says that although moving via stratgic move OP fire will be made.

Questions: If I move a stack of 8 units via transport an artillery can shoot 8 times? Or can a unit OP fire only 1 time per move?

As mentioned Malta never OP fires as noticed? Bug?

[MButtazoni]

Questions: If I move a stack of 8 units via transport an artillery can shoot 8 times? Or can a unit OP fire only 1 time per move?

8 times



will investigate the Malta OP fire issue.

[Graymane]

OpFire also only seems to work if you move THROUGH the zone, not into it or out of it only.

[aletoledo]

thanks for the replies, it makes sense that its a bug. I tried putting even 4 planes on it with nothing happening.

OpFire also only seems to work if you move THROUGH the zone, not into it or out of it only

yes I tested that. I made all human opponents. placed my british fighters and tac bomber on malta and then moved the southern italy stuka to africa with no op-fire.

[Dalwin]

Besides the op-fire, there is another point to Malta.

In games where the Axis commits heavily to Africa and pushes through Egypt into the Middle East, Malta will be the best place to station WA planes to attack Axis transports in the Med.

[aletoledo]

In games where the Axis commits heavily to Africa and pushes through Egypt into the Middle East, Malta will be the best place to station WA planes to attack Axis transports in the Med.

getting the planes there against a live opponent is tough enough. having to sortie them out against the axis med fleet will then get them damaged instantly. op-fire makes the effort of getting the plane there worth it though. without op-fire (as it is now) most german players probably don't even realize there are troops stationed there.

[Graymane]

ORIGINAL: aletoledo

thanks for the replies, it makes sense that its a bug. I tried putting even 4 planes on it with nothing happening.

OpFire also only seems to work if you move THROUGH the zone, not into it or out of it only

yes I tested that. I made all human opponents. placed my british fighters and tac bomber on malta and then moved the southern italy stuka to africa with no op-fire.

Hmmm...I think southern italy is basically in the same zone as Malta since you can amphib it. What about moving a fleet from the western med, through the malta region and then to the eastern med?

The reason that I ask is that I get the op-fire warning ALL the time everywhere else (denmark, france, Pacific islands, etc) every time I try to move a WA fleet through there.

[aletoledo]

right I get op-fire warnings all the time also. but yesterday I had a wierd naval combat happen in the central med and I was trying to recreate the results. so I started testing a bunch of stuff while I was at it.

I don't think southern italy is considered "in the same seazone" because that would really then have to make it an island to avoid the op-fire. a plane moves into the central med and then moves out of the central med on the same move, this seems like a clear op-fire for planes based in malta.

[Joel Billings]

The reason Malta is not Op-firing at stuff moving across it is because aircraft on islands shoot at units that are moving from one sea zone to another sea zone (like the aircraft based on land in the previous paragraph in the manual (I realize this is not clear in the manual). They don't shoot at units moving from a sea zone to a land zone. Malta's main purpose in the game is it causes interdiction points to any surface naval units that move through the area that did not start their turn in the area. This will somewhat hamstring naval operations. It can also be used as an airbase (with it's fort defense bonus).

[Uncle_Joe]

Ahh, OK. That makes sense. So in the Pacific, once the next patch is out, what will be the result? It appears that if you try to move supplies/units PAST an island with air units on it, you will be shot at. Is that correct?

[aletoledo]

The reason Malta is not Op-firing at stuff moving across it is because aircraft on islands shoot at units that are moving from one sea zone to another sea zone (like the aircraft based on land in the previous paragraph in the manual (I realize this is not clear in the manual). They don't shoot at units moving from a sea zone to a land zone. Malta's main purpose in the game is it causes interdiction points to any surface naval units that move through the area that did not start their turn in the area. This will somewhat hamstring naval operations. It can also be used as an airbase (with it's fort defense bonus).

so moving from land-sea-land doesn't cause an op-fire, but a sea-sea-sea or a land-sea-sea will?

perhaps malta would be too powerful if a land-sea-land op-fire would occur, but wasn't that what malta was all about in ww2?

[PeterF]

So, asi it stands, Malta will never interdict supplies? This is contrary to history. If Malta had fallen to the Axis powers as had Crete, then the Luftwaffe and the U-Boats would have had the perfect base from which to attack British supply convoys, control the Mediterannean and the ability to supply the Afrika Corps effectively with much less risk.

[Paul Vebber]

At the scale of the game its difficult to portray events that went on WITIHIN a sea area. If you allowed the battery on malta "full opfire" then it would destroy everything that tried to cross teh Central Med, and require the germnas take it before they could send anything to North Africa.

Without redesigning the game to "make Malta work" the "interediction only" role and opfire for Germans running into and out of it from one end of teh Med to teh other seems a decent compromise.

The Interdiction from Malta is a pretty big deterrent to the Germans running into the EasternMed on the first turn - when ever I try it the interdiction DRM always costs me an extra ship dead and saves an RN ship...And if you do manage to take Suez and or Gibralter and try to run transports and other units through the MEd , then OpFire and get you.

One potential way to deal with this is a sort of "at sea partisan" level based on the number of units on Malta. IF teh Germans keep a force of ships and air patrolling teh central Med, then it gets "beaten down" like partisans, but if it accululates it could be a threat to transportsand supplies that they carry?

[aletoledo]

So, asi it stands, Malta will never interdict supplies? This is contrary to history. If Malta had fallen to the Axis powers as had Crete, then the Luftwaffe and the U-Boats would have had the perfect base from which to attack British supply convoys, control the Mediterannean and the ability to supply the Afrika Corps effectively with much less risk.

well based upon what joel said, Malta will op-fire the british supplies going west to east since its sea-sea-sea, but the german supplies going land-sea-land will make it through. I suppose a german transport system to the middle east would be op-fired upon, since that would be a land-sea-sea situation.

[PeterF]

If this were a scrict recreation of WW2 then, with the British in control of Malta, out of every 10 supply units shipped
to NA by the Germans only 4-5 get through. Malta was a big deal. But I can see how that wouold be difficult to replicate in WaW given its scale and aspirations to simplicity.

[Grotius]

Is taking Gibraltar enough to get Op Fire or do you also have to take the region directly across from Gibraltar (er, Ceuta, I think)? I have Gibraltar in my current PBEM game, and while I've stationed various artillery, flak and aircraft there, I haven't seen any Op Fire. Then again, I think my opponent has crossed the line only once or twice.

[Espejo]

ORIGINAL: PeterF

If this were a scrict recreation of WW2 then, with the British in control of Malta, out of every 10 supply units shipped
to NA by the Germans only 4-5 get through. Malta was a big deal. But I can see how that wouold be difficult to replicate in WaW given its scale and aspirations to simplicity.

Why is it hard to change? Only change would be that always! when you leave a seazone with OP fire opportunity you would be fired upon. I think this would make more sense then the rules right now. We will see....

[aletoledo]

Is taking Gibraltar enough to get Op Fire or do you also have to take the region directly across from Gibraltar (er, Ceuta, I think)? I have Gibraltar in my current PBEM game, and while I've stationed various artillery, flak and aircraft there, I haven't seen any Op Fire. Then again, I think my opponent has crossed the line only once or twice.

I know that if you only occupy the southern shore, they can avoid op-fire by going through the port. which now I understand why, its a sea-land-sea situation. so its really pointless for the germans to grab the southern point since british can alway enter the med without op-fire if they hold gibraltor still.