251 mistake in the game

[o4r]

This is the actual, u may correct the data urself.

Error mostly on the crew and men it can carried.

MG is one issue too.

251/1a, m Schütz Pz Wg
Versions: ABCD
The basic vehicle is designed for 10 soldiers, driver and commander. Two MG34, one sweeping the front and one in a more movable arm at the rear are the armament. The front MG is at first unarmored. The introduction of the "B" version sees an MG shield. "A" versions are sometimes upgraded. More often they are converted to more special roles. The MG34 is later replaced by the MG42. All "D" version have MG42's. The four benches are tubular frames, covered with leather and padded with horse hair. The leather colors vary from black to brown. A shade that is seen most is the so-called "oxblood", a red-brown shade. On late production D's wood is used to replace the tubing. The two benches nearest to the front are 3 seats (the other are 2). The seats are adjustable in height for combat or travel. Above the head of the driver and co-driver little cushions are seen.
equipment
crew of 12
FuSpr F with 2 meter rod antenna.
Shovel on the left fender on D's is sometimes flat, sometimes curved. It is even seen replaced by an pike. The crews usually add all kinds of extra's. Often they are hung from the sides. One of the most seen are jerrycans. Usually water cans because fuel cans are dangerous. Water cans are usually painted with white crosses. A field modification is made by American troops. They install a .50 instead of the MG42 on a D version.


251/1b m Schütz Pz Wg
Versions: ABC
Instead of the simple mount for the MG34, the heavy highly accurate mount is carried. 11 instead of 12 men crew.



251 with "Wurfrahmen"
Versions:ABCD
J. Gast AG constructs in 1941 a simple tubular frame that can be folded up, if not in use. It mounts a crate containing a rocket, the "Wurfrahmen". This heavy 28 cm HE projectile in a wooden crate, or 32 cm napalm in a metal crate, rocket-projectile of which 6 can be mounted with only simple tools and knowledge to any version. Usually the "wurfrahmen" are attached to 251/1"s, but any other is possible. The "D" is seen most numerous. The rockets are launched with the crew outside the vehicle. When moving the control box, the "mehrfachzunder" and cable reels are carried in the vehicle.
Changes from the 251/1
Aiming aids for the driver. The lifting rings on the front armor are replaced by them.


251/2 m Schütz Pz Wg (s Gr W)
In September of 1940 Gaubschats gets an order for installation of an 8 cm mortar. The new version is to be tested in the spring of 1941. The mortar can be set up in and outside the vehicle. In the vehicle it fires forward. The mortar ground-plate for outside firing is carried on the front-armor. The 250/7 subsequently takes the role of the 251/2 because it is big enough.
Equipment
66 rounds of ammo
crew of 8

Differences from the 251/1
Right back seat eliminated for mortar grenades. Mortar ground-plate integrated in the floor. Front MG omitted.


251/10 m Schütz Pz Wg (3,7 cm Pak)
Versions:
A,B,C with standard armor-shield
A,B,C with low full shield
B,C,D with low left side only shield
C,D no shield
In 1940 one of the first variants to appear is this platoon leaders vehicle. At first the standard 3.7 PaK 36 was simply put on top of the armor above the driver and co-driver. Soon all kinds of changes are made to the shield. Later special shields and a lower stand for the gun are created. It is produced until 1943. It is seen on pictures as late as 1944. Many sport extra armor. The gun has an effective range of 600 meters. The gun is sometimes replaced by a 2,8 cm taperbore example. A /C version is seen with a Russian bazooka.
Equipment
Crew of 5 or 6
Sometimes pzb 39 with 40 rounds
Early versions: 168 rounds of 3,7 ammo
FuSpr F
2 meter rod antenna

251/16 mittlerer Flammpanzerwagen
Versions: C,D
First introduced in jan 1943(?). Two 14 mm flamethrowers behind armoured shields, one on each side, and two large tanks in the rear containing 700 litre liquid are installed. The crew is dressed in special non-burning overalls. They are not always wearing it. The flame-thrower is a unpopular but very effective weapon. Throughout the war there is a shortage of the required fuel (yellied petrol). The locations where they are employed most are Russia, Italy, Arnhem 1944. Pictures place them in France also. Range of the main projectors up to 35 meters (depending on the wind). Six vehicles in a platoon. 1850 gallons are on board of 3 trucks. Enough for two refills for the whole platoon.
Equipment
2 14mm flamethrowers
Portable 7 mm flamethrower on early versions. 10 meters range from the vehicle.
1 MG42
Crew of 5, 2 thrower-operators, wireless operator, MG gunner and driver.
8010 rounds of mg ammo.
Compressor(Pump) on a small gasoline engine with 5.5 gallon tank, enough to let it run for 2 hours.
2 700 litre tanks alowing approximately 80 bursts of 2 seconds.
Changes from the standard:
Rear doors permanently sealed.
Height 2.10 meters, weight 8.62 ton.


251/22 mittleren Schützenpanzerwagen (7.5 cm Pak 40)
Versions: D
In the last stages of the war every available gun is put on any available mount to make a self-propelled weapon. Extensive attention of hitler, who thought that this was a key-weapon gave this version. Even the towed version of the gun was produced with a trimmed shield to be able to be mounted directly. An overloaded chassis and a structure not designed for the strain of the guns recoil leads to many mechanical breakdowns. The mount of the gun is made by two H shaped beams welded to the floor roughly halfway the vehicle and the armor above the driver. A platform consisting of flat triangular plates holding a laterally piece of H-beam at half way carries the guns original undercarriage. From the front upper armor a half moon shaped section is trimmed. The left and right traverse is limited to 18 and 19 degrees respectively. The elevation is -3 to +22 degrees. From December 1944 the production has high priority. The gunner sits on a folding wooden seat to the left of the gun. The standard optical instruments are used.

Equipment
7.5 cm Pak 40 (L/46)
Rear MG42
22 rounds HE and AP ammo
Crew of 4 or 5

Changes from the standard 251:
The co-drivers visor is closed by a plate. The gun has a travel-lock between the front visors. Both front benches and rifle-racks are removed. A bin of 17 to the right an one of 5 under the gun are constructed. Most crews carry extra ammo in loose containers. Sometimes in the left rifle-rack. Net Weight 8000 kg

[Alby]

here is schematic of 251/22

Is the thing at the rear wher the MG would mount??
was it an AAMG or Lmg Or what??

[o4r]

I drop some note in the post I started "Fliegerbeschussgerat device"

It is basically the same MG used by infantry as those used by a infantry. I do not have a book on MG yet but I think we can search the web to search for the MG.

But it allow one to fire whilst in standing position, but I suspect the recoil is about the same.

Heavy mount MG is on tripod, trust me, they are very accurate if on tripod.... very very accurate and very stable.

The problem is when MG is on tripod, there are unable to transverse up high to fire.

The only question I have is on the front where there is a shield but I have photographs showing that they are able to transverse up to 80 deg.

[Alby]

So if they could not fire High I am assuming it would not have been an AAMG??
the site doesnt really say Just "rear MG42 MG"

Thanks for reply[:D]

[o4r]

ORIGINAL: Alby

So if they could not fire High I am assuming it would not have been an AAMG??
the site doesnt really say Just "rear MG42 MG"

Thanks for reply[:D]

Actually this site is good, I have downloaded all the short wma file to view various WWII gun firing in live mode. Quite interesting.

http://198.144.2.125/MG42/Machinengeweh ... 20Home.htm

Here u can see what is actually the different between MG, MG as a AA and MG on tripod.

You also see how MG42 is used in assualt mode and what is improper way of standing. Plus Maxim, sten gun, .303, 0.5 cal all in live range firing....

I am sure the MG42 on the rear was never mend to be a AA... The sight for the MG 42 or 34 is different when used as an MG and as a AA MG. But any gun actually can fire high.

If u see those video u will understand.... Sometime we need not to argue with other, we can see such clip to understand.

[plloyd]

Check this site for lots of info on the 251 HT series.
Hanomag Sd.Kfz. 251

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: o4r

ORIGINAL: Alby

So if they could not fire High I am assuming it would not have been an AAMG??
the site doesnt really say Just "rear MG42 MG"

Thanks for reply[:D]

Actually this site is good, I have downloaded all the short wma file to view various WWII gun firing in live mode. Quite interesting.

http://198.144.2.125/MG42/Machinengeweh ... 20Home.htm

Here u can see what is actually the different between MG, MG as a AA and MG on tripod.

You also see how MG42 is used in assualt mode and what is improper way of standing. Plus Maxim, sten gun, .303, 0.5 cal all in live range firing....

I am sure the MG42 on the rear was never mend to be a AA... The sight for the MG 42 or 34 is different when used as an MG and as a AA MG. But any gun actually can fire high.

If u see those video u will understand.... Sometime we need not to argue with other, we can see such clip to understand.

whos arguing?? [&:]
[&:] [&:] [&:]

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: plloyd

Check this site for lots of info on the 251 HT series.
Hanomag Sd.Kfz. 251

Yes thats where I been looking
[:D]

[o4r]

Nah...not talking about you. Sometime my mind wander far when I am typing.

By the way about the question on the MG.

The front MG is not used for AA purpose. The rear MG is for that, because it has the ability to allow the gunner to elevate the gun to 80 deg and allow control of the gun when firing. The front gun has a lesser tranverse but allow a more stable firing platform but I just dunno was it as good as mounting on tripod. Nevertheless, 251/1 has a version that allow one according to site recommended above to mount a HMG on the front and a MG mount on the back (or loose mounting). According to the book, they said that 2 HMG could be mounted on the front.

I edited my own data and placed the rear MG on the last slot. Under heavy suppression, it does not allow me to fire.

However in the game LMG and AAMG only different is one can fire at Aircarft and the other can't.

The argument for reduce to one MG because they felt that the rear MG can't fire front, and 2 MG actually covered 360 deg. Look at M3A1 all guns can fire front but can they tranversed back... so should we erased them becasue they do not have 360 tranverse. Well.......that was the sort of argument I was thinking about.

[8|]

Alby my ideal was actually quite simiple. See the the big video clip of the MG42 place on the wooden platform.

http://198.144.2.125/MG42/Machinengeweh ... 20Home.htm

I can't teach anyone to drive a tank but I am a platoon Sgt, I can teach someone how to fire a GPMG or M60.

See how the gun recoil backward. MG 34 or 42 has the universal bipod which modern MG has.

Why can't I detached the gun from behind and place the gun this way.. I attached a photo below.

Also have you ever wonder why Hilter disapproved the 2cm AA rather 3.7cm? I found the answer but can't find the article anymore. Because 2cm cannot penetrate the armour of Russian IL2, the tank buster in the air for Russia.