In a 41 PBEM game I decided to produce the Do-217 Heavy Bomber for Strategic Bombing on the Caucasus Oil fields. I planned to only produce a small amount to equip one Kampfgeschwader with it. When I had about 90 of them in the pools, I changed all Do-217 production to fighters.
Now I face a problem with the replacement of lost bombers. My KG got 60 Do-217, remaining 30 in the pools. By now the KG has dropped to 25 aircraft, due to flak losses, but there are still 30 in the pools. Isn’t it possible to free these pool-bombers and let them fight until they are all shot down???? They are useless back home enjoying a harmless life!
Does somebody have an idea how to get them to the front?
Thanks in advance
Moonfog
How can I free Pool equippment?
At this point, no idea. I think it is one of the quirks in the game that keeps people for successfully micromanaging production as you are trying to do. About the only way I know to reduce a pool toward 0 is to convert an existing air or tank unit to an equipment type that already has as many or more pieces of equipment as exist in the pool, leaving no replacements. Also, conversion will reduce some equipment types to 4 or less. Otherwise, I believe you need to keep a factory turning some out if you want to have replacements, or leave more available. 40 or so seems to be the magic number.Originally posted by moonfog:
In a 41 PBEM game I decided to produce the Do-217 Heavy Bomber for Strategic Bombing on the Caucasus Oil fields. I planned to only produce a small amount to equip one Kampfgeschwader with it. When I had about 90 of them in the pools, I changed all Do-217 production to fighters.
Now I face a problem with the replacement of lost bombers. My KG got 60 Do-217, remaining 30 in the pools. By now the KG has dropped to 25 aircraft, due to flak losses, but there are still 30 in the pools. Isn’t it possible to free these pool-bombers and let them fight until they are all shot down???? They are useless back home enjoying a harmless life!
Does somebody have an idea how to get them to the front?
Thanks in advance
Moonfog
Rick Bancroft
Semper Fi
Semper Fi
Thanks for the answer Rick,Originally posted by RickyB:
At this point, no idea. I think it is one of the quirks in the game that keeps people for successfully micromanaging production as you are trying to do. About the only way I know to reduce a pool toward 0 is to convert an existing air or tank unit to an equipment type that already has as many or more pieces of equipment as exist in the pool, leaving no replacements. Also, conversion will reduce some equipment types to 4 or less. Otherwise, I believe you need to keep a factory turning some out if you want to have replacements, or leave more available. 40 or so seems to be the magic number.
seems I have to stop such "adventures" regarding production in future games <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
Moonfog
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Ed Cogburn
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Originally posted by moonfog:
seems I have to stop such "adventures" regarding production in future games <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
No, just add 50 to whatever number you want. The game always wants to keep at least 50 in the pool. It will add to units only while its above 50. Instead of 90, you want at least 150 plus extras to replace flak losses.
I'm not sure you want to do this though, the flak losses will eat into this air group eventually, bringing it down to a number that is no longer effective. As long as you want to use this plane type, you should keep a factory on it (IMO).
Besides, as soon as you start long range bombing of the oil fields, your opponent is simply going to station some fighters down there which will end your bombing campaign real quick.
Producing them any further is just what I don't want (or cannot afford because I need fighters more). I wanted to equip one KG to attack the oil fields because I intended to force the soviet to spread his fighters (he didn't do that yet, but the flak works best on my bombers). I didn't want to produce the Do-217 in masses (it's quite expensive), I built it because of its long range capability and the high bomb rate.Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:
No, just add 50 to whatever number you want. The game always wants to keep at least 50 in the pool. It will add to units only while its above 50. Instead of 90, you want at least 150 plus extras to replace flak losses.
I'm not sure you want to do this though, the flak losses will eat into this air group eventually, bringing it down to a number that is no longer effective. As long as you want to use this plane type, you should keep a factory on it (IMO).
Besides, as soon as you start long range bombing of the oil fields, your opponent is simply going to station some fighters down there which will end your bombing campaign real quick.
I also didn't expect the flak working so good. So that's why I won't build that plane in future games.
Moonfog
Moonfog,Originally posted by moonfog:
Producing them any further is just what I don't want (or cannot afford because I need fighters more). I wanted to equip one KG to attack the oil fields because I intended to force the soviet to spread his fighters (he didn't do that yet, but the flak works best on my bombers). I didn't want to produce the Do-217 in masses (it's quite expensive), I built it because of its long range capability and the high bomb rate.
I also didn't expect the flak working so good. So that's why I won't build that plane in future games.
Moonfog
In my experience, the pool A/C will be distributed down below 20 if the plane is no longer in production, it just takes time. Ed is right about the AI keeping the pool levels at 50 for units in production though. I wouldn' worry about the cost of any unit though. All factories will increase in size to 15, it just takes longer for higher cost equipment. On the other hand if a factory will someday upgrade to an even higher cost item it is much better to have that factory increasing in capacity at the highest cost currently available than having it stuck at 15 for a moderate or low cost item. The Do-217 will upgrade to the He-177 in April 1942 and it costs 8 so if you have a 15 capacity Fw-190 factory converted to a He-177 it will have a capacity of only 7. However a 15 capacity Do-217 will have a capacity of 13 when converted to the He-177. Not only that but the Do-217 factory will only be down for 1 week while the Fw-190 factory will be down for 4 weeks when converted to the He-177.
Svar
PS. You only need about 6 Fw-190 factories at the start of the war and you can get that with all the fighter, fighter/bomber, and Ju-52 factories.
[ August 28, 2001: Message edited by: Svar ]</p>
Today seems to be a lot to learn. I didn't know that the upgrade from Do-217 to He-177 only takes one turn. Does that sort of reduction also play with other equippment? I think here of Pz-38(t)e upgraded to Marder production for ex.Originally posted by Svar:
Moonfog,
In my experience, the pool A/C will be distributed down below 20 if the plane is no longer in production, it just takes time. Ed is right about the AI keeping the pool levels at 50 for units in production though. I wouldn' worry about the cost of any unit though. All factories will increase in size to 15, it just takes longer for higher cost equipment. On the other hand if a factory will someday upgrade to an even higher cost item it is much better to have that factory increasing in capacity at the highest cost currently available than having it stuck at 15 for a moderate or low cost item. The Do-217 will upgrade to the He-177 in April 1942 and it costs 8 so if you have a 15 capacity Fw-190 factory converted to a He-177 it will have a capacity of only 7. However a 15 capacity Do-217 will have a capacity of 13 when converted to the He-177. Not only that but the Do-217 factory will only be down for 1 week while the Fw-190 factory will be down for 4 weeks when converted to the He-177.
Svar
PS. You only need about 6 Fw-190 factories at the start of the war and you can get that with all the fighter, fighter/bomber, and Ju-52 factories.
[ August 28, 2001: Message edited by: Svar ]
My pool of Do-217 is stuck on 31 planes since 2 months now while the Kampfgeschwader has dropped from 60 active planes to 20.
When I understood your note correct, you change all Bf-109f, Bf-110 and Ju-52 factories to Fw-190 at the beginning of the game? Did you never experience any shortage of these types since they are used almost everywhere (especially the 109f)in the start of a game?
I normally let those factories untouched,except changing one Bf-109f to Fw-190. I produce the 110 in one factory to replace losses in the 3 or 4 Zerstörergeschwader and also Ju-52 to fill the front units up.
Moonfog
Moonfog,Originally posted by moonfog:
Today seems to be a lot to learn. I didn't know that the upgrade from Do-217 to He-177 only takes one turn. Does that sort of reduction also play with other equippment? I think here of Pz-38(t)e upgraded to Marder production for ex.
My pool of Do-217 is stuck on 31 planes since 2 months now while the Kampfgeschwader has dropped from 60 active planes to 20.
When I understood your note correct, you change all Bf-109f, Bf-110 and Ju-52 factories to Fw-190 at the beginning of the game? Did you never experience any shortage of these types since they are used almost everywhere (especially the 109f)in the start of a game?
I normally let those factories untouched,except changing one Bf-109f to Fw-190. I produce the 110 in one factory to replace losses in the 3 or 4 Zerstörergeschwader and also Ju-52 to fill the front units up.
Moonfog
I never produce the Bf-109s or 110s. Once the Fw-190 factories are all up and running, I convert the Bf-109 groups to Fw-190s. I usually don't switch the Ju-52 factory until late Dec 1941. When the AI upgrades any factory the down time is only 1 week. It is possible to reduce the player directed upgrade to 2 weeks if you first switch to a factory that the AI will automatically upgrade. You must have the computer control your factories for this to occur and the game starts with the computer in control.
Svar
PS. If you wait long enough the AI will upgrade all your fighter and fighter/bomber groups to Fw-190s as long as there are enough 190s in the pool. Another trick is over produce the 190 and once there over 1000 planes in the pool the replacement of losses will be 30 planes per week instead of 10 so you can have fighter groups with 225 planes instead of 205 planes.