A "No-Whiners" challange for v1.50

[ADavidB]

I'm going to be away on a much-needed vacation for the first couple of weeks of May. I'm hoping that v1.50 will be out by the time I get back. I want to try to upgrade my current game against PzB, but I also want to start two other campaign games as the Allies under the new version:

1 - A historic start where we let the AI run December 7 for us and see how well the game plays afterwards. This will be run under the "usual" conditions: sub doctrines off for both sides (and the AI sub control off right from the beginning), Allied "repair" doctrine on, one day turns, fixed reinforcements and so on. We'll make it as "vanilla ice cream" as possible. Let's see how well the Game behaves "as designed" under v1.50.

2 - A No-Whiners non-historic start where we both do whatever we want to do with no constraints on either side. We will use all of the conditions I've listed above with the following three additional "understandings":

2.1 - Both sides can send any and all forces ANYWHERE they want on the first turn and afterwards. So, for example, if I pull everything that will move out of Pearl or Manila or Singapore - that's the way it goes. If you want to pull everyone out of Manchuria and the coast of China, feel free.

2.2 - Both sides can attack ANYWHERE during the game at any time. So, for example, if you want to bomb every port in the Pacific on the first turn, feel free.

2.3 - Neither side will whine about buggy play, "unhistorical" play, bad game design, or even so-called "catastrophic" bugs. So if your Zekes don't show up, tough luck - it's only a game. The point is to see how wild we can go with this game.

So, for example, if you want to invade Russia, China, and India simultaneously on the first turn; go ahead. Using the hex edges to trap opposing forces is fine. Go all-out to capture the Allied reinforcement entry hexes.

Also, for example, if you fail to protect your Manchurian bases, I capture them and they become Soviet bases - "tough titty" (to use a War Time term). We won't consider that a "Bug", we'll consider that an "undocumented design feature".

Also, for example, if either of us wants to put 25 DDs in an ASW TF - cool - make as many of them as you please.

Likewise, if I want to put a 1000 bombers at 100 feet and pound your bases into dust - "them's the breaks".

My point here is to test the new version past the breaking point. Anything and everything goes.

Anyone here want to try this come May 18th or so?

Thanks -

Dave Baranyi

[rogueusmc]

What a breath of fresh air!!!

[Tom Hunter]

But I want to be able to blame the game for my screwups!





And complain about the lack of historical accuracy if something bad happens to me.

Those are both ways I compesate for manifest lack of ability. If I blamed me it would damage my self esteem.[;)]

[Drex]

It would take an exceptional individual to play a whole game without whining at least once.

[Sonny]

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

But I want to be able to blame the game for my screwups!





And complain about the lack of historical accuracy if something bad happens to me.

Those are both ways I compesate for manifest lack of ability. If I blamed me it would damage my self esteem.[;)]

Me too!

[Sonny]

ORIGINAL: Drex

It would take an exceptional individual to play a whole game without whining at least once.

I have trouble playing a whole TURN without complaining.[X(]

[freeboy]

random a bombs in 43, me 262's for JApan.. ok.. no whinning

[forranger]

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

.....

2.1 - Both sides can send any and all forces ANYWHERE they want on the first turn and afterwards. So, for example, if I pull everything that will move out of Pearl or Manila or Singapore - that's the way it goes. If you want to pull everyone out of Manchuria and the coast of China, feel free.

.....

I wonder what kind of jap player will agree to this. Heroic? Challenge seeking? Utter stupid? Center piece of the jap war plans was getting surprise at Pearl and destroying as much allied war assets in PI and SE Asia as possible. As I see it handing away surprise for nothing can't be a brilliant move by any jap player.

I bet you wouldn't play such a scenario as jap, right? If you do I'll be happy to play the allied part........

[Tom Hunter]

I don't see 2.1 as a problem since PP restrictions are what holds the Allied troops in place, not some gentleman's agreement. If anything this may give Japan a small advantage for example they can invade Johore Baru turn 1 under this rule.

[Cap Mandrake]

Bah...WITP has a fidelity that is unmatched. I was trying out this new game in Las Vegas...its called Blackjack or something like that (usually abbreviated BJ). Anyway..the idea is to get a higher point total than your opponent without going over 21. The game is waaay buggy. Every Blackjack playing center has it's own house rules. And get this...they usually aren't written down [:-]..you have to ask. Worse..if you get up and move to a new table there may be a whole new OOB with different house rules.[:@] It gets worse. To distract you, the AI sends out good-looking fem-bots with push up bras and free alcohol. They pretend to like you. I tell you..its diabolical.

Here is an actual combat replay:


Cap wagers 500 "chips" (I later learned a special house rule dictates this was real money[X(])


Cap draws:

K and Q

Dealer shows a 6 (this is a pat 20 vs s dealer 6..a great hand...kinda like the KB catching the Enterprise by itself with nothing but Buffaloes to protect itself)

Cap says "hold" (a sound choice)

Dealer exposes a second 6 (Looking good)

Dealer draws a 2 (looking better)

Dealer draws an Ace (now even better..total is 15)

Dealer draws another Ace (Yeah baby..16)

Dealer draws a 5..21..dealer wins! [:@][:@] (A lone Wirraway takes down the Yamato!!)

Well, naturally, I asked for a redo. I demanded it! They sent a big guy with a radio thingy in his ear to show me the exit. I think I will wait for the next patch.

[forranger]

It's not troop movements I wanted to point out but ships and planes taken out of reach of the initial jap strikes. If the allies don't get hurt on day 1 their comeback will be sooner and easier.

[kaiser73]

ORIGINAL: forranger

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

.....

2.1 - Both sides can send any and all forces ANYWHERE they want on the first turn and afterwards. So, for example, if I pull everything that will move out of Pearl or Manila or Singapore - that's the way it goes. If you want to pull everyone out of Manchuria and the coast of China, feel free.

.....

I wonder what kind of jap player will agree to this. Heroic? Challenge seeking? Utter stupid? Center piece of the jap war plans was getting surprise at Pearl and destroying as much allied war assets in PI and SE Asia as possible. As I see it handing away surprise for nothing can't be a brilliant move by any jap player.

I bet you wouldn't play such a scenario as jap, right? If you do I'll be happy to play the allied part........

yup. The funny things about these proposals is that the ones proposing those will play just 1 side (allies...) [;)]

[forranger]

It kind of bothers me to see one-sided proposals like this because folks with little experience with WitP or wargaming in general might fall for them, invest lots of time and realize way too late the odds were against them right from the scenario start. It would be something completely different if a veteran agreed to play like that, seeking the challenge.

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

I don't see 2.1 as a problem since PP restrictions are what holds the Allied troops in place, not some gentleman's agreement. If anything this may give Japan a small advantage for example they can invade Johore Baru turn 1 under this rule.

I agree, for the Allies this might give some flexibility in Centpac and the South Pac, but they still cant ship the Aussie Divisions willy-nilly and they cant send the West Coast US divisions without PP's being spent. Same thing on ABDA..they arent going anywhere.

On the other hand, the Japanese player could easily take troops from the Malasia campaign and throw them into Burma or India or Australia (no guarantees of success[;)])

[Mr.Frag]

invade Johore Baru turn 1 under this rule.

Them torpedo bombers are a bit too painful for that stunt. Tried many times, including donating some CV's to the cause, it's just not worth the cost vs coming down from further north where they only drop bombs.

[mogami]

Hi, I have a challenge out that has several takers. It's a no whiner but the Japanese are the only ones with a free ticket on turn 1. The Allies only get to give orders in China on turn 1.

[freeboy]

Funny, sounded to mye like you where chicken! balk balk hehe[:D]

[kaiser73]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

I don't see 2.1 as a problem since PP restrictions are what holds the Allied troops in place, not some gentleman's agreement. If anything this may give Japan a small advantage for example they can invade Johore Baru turn 1 under this rule.

I agree, for the Allies this might give some flexibility in Centpac and the South Pac, but they still cant ship the Aussie Divisions willy-nilly and they cant send the West Coast US divisions without PP's being spent. Same thing on ABDA..they arent going anywhere.

On the other hand, the Japanese player could easily take troops from the Malasia campaign and throw them into Burma or India or Australia (no guarantees of success[;)])

Allies can save all their shipping on PH.
They can use mass night bombing.
They can set up to make first turn invasions deadly and to save all their airpower from 1st turn.

What advantage Japan can have? landing on kendari on turn 2 ? this is not enough for having 6 BB ready and all airpower ready for the 8th of december.

[mc3744]

ORIGINAL: forranger

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

.....

2.1 - Both sides can send any and all forces ANYWHERE they want on the first turn and afterwards. So, for example, if I pull everything that will move out of Pearl or Manila or Singapore - that's the way it goes. If you want to pull everyone out of Manchuria and the coast of China, feel free.

.....

I wonder what kind of jap player will agree to this. Heroic? Challenge seeking? Utter stupid? Center piece of the jap war plans was getting surprise at Pearl and destroying as much allied war assets in PI and SE Asia as possible. As I see it handing away surprise for nothing can't be a brilliant move by any jap player.

I bet you wouldn't play such a scenario as jap, right? If you do I'll be happy to play the allied part........

I really have to disagree with this.
I had the best results as Jap when the Allies where able to move. And the worst when I (as Allies) I could move out of PH (4 BBs sunk plus several other ships).
Ships are easier to sink at sea.
If the KB sets his order as naval attack primary and port attack secondary. You (Jap) are going to get your PH attack anyway, plus you get to easily sink whatever as gone out to the sea.
And the Japs can take their time with the vessels out at sea to come back later for PH. No hurry there.

The only real advantage for the Allies is the reduce aircraft loss. But it doesn't matter IMHO that much, considering that are mainly old planse (P-26, P-35, Bolo's). And the Allies really have plenty of planes.

As Jap I'll always allow a free first turn (I think [;)])

[ADavidB]

They can use mass night bombing.

Both sides can do this. Have you seen what PzB can do with 100+ Sallys in a day attack? Imagine them in a night attack.

Cheers -

Dave Baranyi