Hack request for Ed

Yogi Yohan · Post by **Yogi Yohan** » Tue Oct 16, 2001 9:08 pm

Ed,

Any chance you could introduce the option to disable those irritating automatic "upgrades" of Pz-battallions to JPz-battallions from 43 on in your WIRHACK?

I understand these are historical, but in history they happened for a reason, a desperate shortage of panzers. If that should not happen, I don't see why I have to have my Pz-IV's and Panthers substituted for Marders and such crap simply because there are many in the pool.

In PACWAR the player has the option to decline similar upgrades. It would be good to have that option in WIR, or at least in the Hack.

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Wed Oct 17, 2001 10:14 am

Originally posted by Yogi Yohan:
Ed,

Any chance you could introduce the option to disable those irritating automatic "upgrades" of Pz-battallions to JPz-battallions from 43 on in your WIRHACK?

I understand these are historical, but in history they happened for a reason, a desperate shortage of panzers. If that should not happen, I don't see why I have to have my Pz-IV's and Panthers substituted for Marders and such crap simply because there are many in the pool.

In PACWAR the player has the option to decline similar upgrades. It would be good to have that option in WIR, or at least in the Hack.

You know, it might be possible. The game prints a message about a battalion being upgraded, if it also prints a message about Pz battalions being changed to Jpz battalions too, then I can use the message to find the code. I can't remember if the messages printed include the Pz to Jpz conversion of battalions or just change of equipment, I can't look right now. You can help me out by sending me a save game where a couple of these conversions happen on the next turn and I'll see what I can do. No promises, but I'll take a look.

I can't give you an in-game option. *Adding* things by hacking is virtually impossible. I could, maybe, get a block on Jpz conversions that you could turn on and off with whedit.exe.

However, perhaps an equivalent solution is to deliberately take over tank production to make sure there are more Panthers and such instead of Marders and Stugs (the conversion to Stugs is a much worse problem - this is something I should look at too). If the Marders or Stuggs basically aren't there, the game can't make the conversions. Make just enough of those to feed the existing Assualt Gun and Jpz units. How about trying that as a test and seeing what happens?

Yogi Yohan · Post by **Yogi Yohan** » Wed Oct 17, 2001 2:13 pm

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:

You know, it might be possible. The game prints a message about a battalion being upgraded, if it also prints a message about Pz battalions being changed to Jpz battalions too, then I can use the message to find the code. I can't remember if the messages printed include the Pz to Jpz conversion of battalions or just change of equipment, I can't look right now. You can help me out by sending me a save game where a couple of these conversions happen on the next turn and I'll see what I can do. No promises, but I'll take a look.

I can't give you an in-game option. *Adding* things by hacking is virtually impossible. I could, maybe, get a block on Jpz conversions that you could turn on and off with whedit.exe.

However, perhaps an equivalent solution is to deliberately take over tank production to make sure there are more Panthers and such instead of Marders and Stugs (the conversion to Stugs is a much worse problem - this is something I should look at too). If the Marders or Stuggs basically aren't there, the game can't make the conversions. Make just enough of those to feed the existing Assualt Gun and Jpz units. How about trying that as a test and seeing what happens?

I do that, and it works to some extent with StuGs, but the problems begin when all kinds of eqipment (Czech-38s, R-35 etc) are converted to Marder III. At the same time, Nashorns are coming into production, and if i put them in JPz units, then the Marders start piling up. As soon as there are over 100 (or so) Marders or StuGs in the pool, a Pz Battallion is converted, even if there are more tanks than that in the pool. So if I ever want to use anything else than Marders, I can't let the JPz units have the better stuff before they are totally depleted.

A hack would do more than nicely. I'll try to produce such a saved game and send it to you. The message goes like "x/y JPzBn upgraded with x Marder II", where "x/y" was the name of a PzBn until now.

Thanks!

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Sun Oct 21, 2001 2:36 am

Originally posted by Yogi Yohan:

I do that, and it works to some extent with StuGs, but the problems begin when all kinds of eqipment (Czech-38s, R-35 etc) are converted to Marder III. At the same time, Nashorns are coming into production, and if i put them in JPz units, then the Marders start piling up. As soon as there are over 100 (or so) Marders or StuGs in the pool, a Pz Battallion is converted, even if there are more tanks than that in the pool. So if I ever want to use anything else than Marders, I can't let the JPz units have the better stuff before they are totally depleted.

A hack would do more than nicely. I'll try to produce such a saved game and send it to you. The message goes like "x/y JPzBn upgraded with x Marder II", where "x/y" was the name of a PzBn until now.

Thanks!

Johan(sp?) sent me a save game (thanks) but I didn't see any conversion of a Pz to a Jpz or to Stug3g. I did see the use of Stug3g in Jpz battalions, but I didn't see a conversion of a Pz battalion. I tried for a little bit but could'nt come up with an example.

I'm not going to worry about Stugs in a Jpz battalion, the important thing is to see what can be done about the conversion of Pz battalions. If anyone has a save gamed example of this, please send it to me.

JustAGame · Post by **JustAGame** » Sun Oct 21, 2001 8:40 am

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:

Johan(sp?) sent me a save game (thanks) but I didn't see any conversion of a Pz to a Jpz or to Stug3g. I did see the use of Stug3g in Jpz battalions, but I didn't see a conversion of a Pz battalion. I tried for a little bit but could'nt come up with an example.

I'm not going to worry about Stugs in a Jpz battalion, the important thing is to see what can be done about the conversion of Pz battalions. If anyone has a save gamed example of this, please send it to me.

The conversion takes place under "If, then" circumstances. On certain game turns, "if" slots addreses X to (X + Y) are equal to the number established for Jpz Bn (I think it is 8) then the addresses of the tank type in those JPz Bns are changed to the number established for the replacing equipment type.

The way I overcome this is to resort the sub units so that those units will never be JPz Bns in the addresses or slots X to (X + Y).

With Ed's skill at finding the command lines in the exe file, he might be able to change the game turns for the change from their current number to 255 or higher if it is possible, basically making it so the search will not happpen during the game. Alternatively, Ed could have it do the search if the sub unit is Motorized Division (5) for the respective slots rather than the JPz Bn (8). Additionally, he might even be able to slots to only one affected or posssibly an existing Stug slot.

According to the documentation for EditWiR:
1. Every week starting in March 1943  The Jpz bns (type 8) armor units of divisions [slots] 17-42 have their jagdpanzers upgraded to newer types if pools permit : Marder II, III, Nashorn, JgdPzIV, StugIIIg.

2. Every week starting in January 43 Jpz bns (armor units 201-229, type 8) see their tanks replaced to Marder III, Nashorn, JagdPanther or JagdTiger.

These are just my observations and suggestions. I hope this helps.

[ October 21, 2001: Message edited by: JustAGame ]</p>

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Sun Oct 21, 2001 10:42 am

Originally posted by JustAGame:
The conversion takes place under "If, then" circumstances. On certain game turns, "if" slots addreses X to (X + Y) are equal to the number established for Jpz Bn (I think it is 8) then the addresses of the tank type in those JPz Bns are changed to the number established for the replacing equipment type.

The way I overcome this is to resort the sub units so that those units will never be JPz Bns in the addresses or slots X to (X + Y).

I had written a longer response for this but lost it when I hit "Add Reply" and discovered I had been silently disconnected. Damn ISP. Oh, well. A shorter response:

I understand the situation of how Jpz bns are upgraded, but can you explain to me again how the resorting works?

Basically, I'm not ready, and possibly just not capable, of altering equipment distribution for Jpz bns. I'm going to focus on stopping Pz to Jpz/StuG battalion conversions as that is what bothers most people, I believe, and the fact that, as Yogi pointed out, this hardwired behavior assumes a historical German production schedule, and because I detest this kind of hardwired feature in a game. Move it to an ini or cfg file for heaven's sake and let the PLAYER be in control! POWER TO THE GROGNARDS!!!

Still looking for a save game folks! One that has, ideally, several Pz to Jpz/StuG conversions. I could concoct an example of my own, but have tried that without success so far, and besides, I'm lazy. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Yogi Yohan · Post by **Yogi Yohan** » Sun Oct 21, 2001 12:31 pm

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:

I had written a longer response for this but lost it when I hit "Add Reply" and discovered I had been silently disconnected. Damn ISP. Oh, well. A shorter response:

I understand the situation of how Jpz bns are upgraded, but can you explain to me again how the resorting works?

Basically, I'm not ready, and possibly just not capable, of altering equipment distribution for Jpz bns. I'm going to focus on stopping Pz to Jpz/StuG battalion conversions as that is what bothers most people, I believe, and the fact that, as Yogi pointed out, this hardwired behavior assumes a historical German production schedule, and because I detest this kind of hardwired feature in a game. Move it to an ini or cfg file for heaven's sake and let the PLAYER be in control! POWER TO THE GROGNARDS!!!

Still looking for a save game folks! One that has, ideally, several Pz to Jpz/StuG conversions. I could concoct an example of my own, but have tried that without success so far, and besides, I'm lazy. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Ed, I have rerun the savegame I sent you and I get a couple of PzBn to JPzBn conversions every time. The message never says PzBn converts to JPz though. You get the message "JPz Bn 1/1 is reformed with x Marder II" but Bn 1/1 was a PzBn on the previous turn. Check out the first batallion in the Pzdivisions before and after execution of the game. Before, they're all Pz, after, one or two are JPz.

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Mon Oct 22, 2001 3:35 am

Originally posted by Yogi Yohan:

Ed, I have rerun the savegame I sent you and I get a couple of PzBn to JPzBn conversions every time. The message never says PzBn converts to JPz though. You get the message "JPz Bn 1/1 is reformed with x Marder II" but Bn 1/1 was a PzBn on the previous turn. Check out the first batallion in the Pzdivisions before and after execution of the game. Before, they're all Pz, after, one or two are JPz.

You're right. I tried something an hour ago and when I looked at some of the panzer divisions I realized quite a few pz bns had already switched to Stugs, so it looks like there is a message that doesn't explicity mention a pz to jpz/stug conversion as you pointed out. What had been tripping me up is the discovery that a conversion of a pz bn to stugs refers to the new bn as jpz and not stug??? Thats why there seem so many jpz battalions, a lot of them were pz bns that got converted to stugs, but were labeled as jpz. Either that, or 2 conversions are happening concurrently in the same turn. Confusing. Ah well, again, back into the breech!

Svar · Post by **Svar** » Mon Oct 22, 2001 11:34 am

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:

You're right. I tried something an hour ago and when I looked at some of the panzer divisions I realized quite a few pz bns had already switched to Stugs, so it looks like there is a message that doesn't explicity mention a pz to jpz/stug conversion as you pointed out. What had been tripping me up is the discovery that a conversion of a pz bn to stugs refers to the new bn as jpz and not stug??? Thats why there seem so many jpz battalions, a lot of them were pz bns that got converted to stugs, but were labeled as jpz. Either that, or 2 conversions are happening concurrently in the same turn. Confusing. Ah well, again, back into the breech!

Ed,

In 1943 straight Pz Bns equipped with Pz-IIIms will convert to Stug-IIIgs but that isn't the same thing as a JPz Bn because they still have 75 vehicles while the JPz Bns will only have 50 vehicles.

Svar

Yogi Yohan · Post by **Yogi Yohan** » Mon Oct 22, 2001 12:51 pm

Historically, StuG-IIIg and StuG-IV were used in a tank destroyer or even tank role. I think this is what the game tries to simulate by making JPz and Pz battallions equipped with StuGs. This would be OK unless for the fact that you cannot decline such an upgrade or undo it, since what determines what kind of equipment you can upgrade to is not the type of the unit but the type of equipment it currently has. So once you have StuGs in a unit, you're stuck with assault guns.

I think this is a very bad thing. This is compounded by the fact that some AFV types are hardwired. I tried to change the JPz-I, Marders and Nashorn into medium TDs (to make them upgradable with JPz-IV and Hetzer) and the Jagdpanther to a heavy TD (to avoid it becoming a staple unit) and it turns out I could have classed them garbage trucks for all that the game cares. The TD classes are hardwired. Darn.

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Mon Oct 22, 2001 3:36 pm

Originally posted by Svar:

Ed,

In 1943 straight Pz Bns equipped with Pz-IIIms will convert to Stug-IIIgs but that isn't the same thing as a JPz Bn because they still have 75 vehicles while the JPz Bns will only have 50 vehicles.

Svar

Not sure I understand you here. When the game changes to Stugs, it *reclassifies* the battalion as a Jpz bn, changing its type ID from 6 to 8. As far as I can tell, this conversion is 100% complete. The bn *is* Jpz now and will be treated as such for the rest of the game, and you can't change this, short of using editwir and altering production in the game.

I'm neck deep in the code that does this, but I don't *understand* it yet. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

Yogi: yes, it was cheap to build and effective as a tank destroyer too. I learned this the hard, painfull way from a SPWaW game where I found out Shermans don't last long with Stugs on the hills in front of them. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:32 pm

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:

Not sure I understand you here. When the game changes to Stugs, it *reclassifies* the battalion as a Jpz bn, changing its type ID from 6 to 8. As far as I can tell, this conversion is 100% complete. The bn *is* a Jpz now and will be treated as such for the rest of the game, and you can't change this, short of using editwir and altering production in the game.

Ok, another clarification is necessary. *BOTH* methods are occurring, and I don't know why. In one case the pz is turned into a jpz and replaced with Stugs (in every case I saw it was just Stugs not jagdpanzers), and in the other case it leaves a pz bn as pz but fills the pz bn with Stug-IIIg's. Weird.

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:43 pm

Originally posted by Yogi Yohan:
Ed,

Any chance you could introduce the option to disable those irritating automatic "upgrades" of Pz-battallions to JPz-battallions from 43 on in your WIRHACK?

Yogi, ask and ye shall receive....

Stick a fork in it folks cuz' this one is *DONE*. In the next version of WirHack, you will be able to block conversion of Panzer battalions to Jagdpanzer battalions AND YOU'LL BE ABLE TO BLOCK PANZER BATTALIONS FROM GETTING STUG-IIIG TANKS!

[ October 23, 2001: Message edited by: Ed Cogburn ]</p>

Yogi Yohan · Post by **Yogi Yohan** » Tue Oct 23, 2001 4:25 pm

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:
Yogi, ask and ye shall receive....

Stick a fork in it folks cuz' this one is *DONE*. In the next version of WirHack, you will be able to block conversion of Panzer battalions to Jagdpanzer battalions AND YOU'LL BE ABLE TO BLOCK PANZER BATTALIONS FROM GETTING STUG-IIIG TANKS!

Hail Ed! Truly we are blessed with the bounty of thyne labourous hacking efforts. We salute thee, oh mighty squasher of pet pewees, oh empowerer of the Grognards...

Now sing with me: Cogburn, Cogburn über allles...

<img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

[ October 23, 2001: Message edited by: Yogi Yohan ]</p>

Tom1939 · Post by **Tom1939** » Wed Oct 24, 2001 11:30 am

COGBURN, COGBURN ÜBER ALLES... <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">