History repeats itself, almost

[freeboy]

Manilla continues its decline.. Bataan too, Iwo, not being an Atoll, thank you .. is going to be slow roasted.. every turn 400-450 naval planes and a much smaller group of heavies lba hit it.. I am bringing the entire Central pac group army to bear there.. I think I will take it... he has now around 57k troops..

In the great flood exodus from Vietnam to China.. I am trying to stem the tide,, the troops are now close enough to pumull from PI.. and I should easily take Taan and vicinity.. I would like to think 650k troos could do the job.. plus the Chineese???

[freeboy]

The little Island Off the coast is a goal.. and Iwo looks like I may be there for awhile..
I cqannot imagine months of bombardments and my attacks just seem to bounce off!.. But I control the Seas and Air, and have a lrge artilery and tank and infantry superiority.. need soom good combat engineers!

Nothing new in the air war.. and Manilla keeps killing off my troops!.. but I am attacking and his total keeps falling and falling

[freeboy]

November first week
Bataan falls.. just clean up now... Iwo down another level.. and attacking at + odds...
I guess those tanks and artillery pieces help... I continue to harass theme by sea and air bombardment

The china coast diversionary raids are fruitless... I really cannot do anything anywhere now, other than a small raid on that Island with the two bases; Taan and Klungihun.. that is other than bomb him and pumull manilla bataan and Iwo... ASAP from when iwo falls we will be getting the next phase ready... "burnig the red pony trail" go figure on that name, some former holyiwood type! MAc is steamed that I pulled the plug on operation springboard... maybe a revamped plan attacking Shanghi? China is just messy[:-]
soon some more cve/l cv and some bc bb...I have two large bombard BB groups... and anouther larde surface interceptor force.. plus a minor and major DS... I nthe next six months I get alot of new improved ships and planes.. What I really want is my lost SWPAC and anouther Marine divisions

[freeboy]

Iwo is all but in the bag, defenses falling quickly to combined arms attacks...
Troops at Manilla and Battaan falling too in PI
Taan fell to a few troops
Soon Baatan Island will be a forward air base able to support fighters to escort raids? and as PI gets cleaned up we will see some new land initiatives.... Springboard is dead.. it was a coastl invasion designed to trap enemy troops in Vitnam.. all too sneeky My opponent has sent them slinking back into the caves in China...

Really have not decided what to do afte rPI gets done though.. and It looks like Iwo will make it sooner.. last attack was at 5-1.. fort at 6

[String]

Hm, I'd suggest against invading China. It's my impression that the japs have less troops on home islands even in '45 and the points that can be scored there are a lot higher.

Also it would be more fun to watch [:D]

[freeboy]

He ahad only a feew troops between Hanoi and HK.. and each of my three armies in the area could have take HK and seeled the doom of all those cut off troops.. the had no where to go.. see above maps.. now he is pulling out.. boo hoo... here are the CR stats for land combat only yesterday:


Ground combat at 43,40

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 78885 troops, 814 guns, 4 vehicles

Defending force 95834 troops, 641 guns, 0 vehicles



Allied ground losses:
14 casualties reported
Guns lost 1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Iwo Jima

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 30176 troops, 159 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 121026 troops, 1206 guns, 1014 vehicles



Allied ground losses:
2 casualties reported
Guns lost 1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Manila

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 463173 troops, 3227 guns, 3808 vehicles

Defending force 55554 troops, 1 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 227 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
23280 casualties reported
Guns lost 140
Vehicles lost 5

Allied ground losses:
416 casualties reported
Guns lost 23
Vehicles lost 1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Kiungahan

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 5739 troops, 38 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 6471 troops, 38 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 3)


Japanese ground losses:
31 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Allied ground losses:
101 casualties reported
Guns lost 2


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Taan

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 3484 troops, 40 guns, 33 vehicles

Defending force 5155 troops, 37 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 5 to 1 (fort level 3)

Allied forces CAPTURE Taan base !!!


Japanese aircraft
no flights

No Japanese losses

Japanese ground losses:
145 casualties reported
Guns lost 10

Allied ground losses:
83 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Vehicles lost 4


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Bataan

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 28847 troops, 231 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 31171 troops, 73 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 4 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
178 casualties reported
Guns lost 4

Allied ground losses:
539 casualties reported
Guns lost 17


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Iwo Jima

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 110054 troops, 1163 guns, 876 vehicles

Defending force 40795 troops, 162 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 6

Allied assault odds: 5 to 1 (fort level 6)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 6


Japanese ground losses:
1751 casualties reported
Guns lost 47

Allied ground losses:
618 casualties reported
Guns lost 22
Vehicles lost 1

[freeboy]

Massive losses for the JAps in Manilla , Bataan is holding out ok.. Taan troops died
Not much else.. Iwo dropped another level and my troops remain confident and low fat/dis

The chioce to attack China is one that plays into the strategic nature of the bombing and hunting out the JAp shipping .. I may have to attack China to get air cover to support my death stars search for ships in ports.. next round after Iwo falls will be the above mentioned operation; "burning the red pony trail" where little but cinders will be left in all places we can bomb... Z has lots of commercial fleets still and I have spent a good amount of time/effort mining his ports.. next it will be a air /sub blanket against them with Death Star support... I may be forced to invade JApan.. lots of points.. first one must destroy the industry to get those points.. I am playing like a gamer here.. not a tacticianjm.. looking for points.. kinda gamy but whatever I think that is why the designers assiegned point values...

Anyway, Iwo should fall in days... a week at the outside... Manilla troops likewize will be gone soon.. same time frame
then Batann wuiill be reinforced to kill off those guys and most of the fresher troops will immediately leave PI for next operation, codename "Sticky Raincoat"[:-].. who comes up with these names?

[Tom Hunter]

Interesting fight on Iwo. Historically the Japanese inflicted a lot of losses there. Can we get a comparison at the end of the invasion, troops at start, troops put in, troops at end? I would like to see the real casualty figure.

You need to see it too, to decide if you can win this way or not.

You and Zeta have very interesting tactical problems as you both work on winning the game. Different but very interesting.

[freeboy]

Actually the losses are light on my side, you just do not get anything like the points you need for japs killed.. the POINTS way to win is to destroy the jap economy in total.. every single base leveled, and then start eating up bases until you hit 2-1 Z had as his criteria getting pat the hystorical VJ day.. and he just may.. if the points are his criteria.. I fel good, at least as good as I can given the losses I sufferred before 06 1943, at which time I was realling from heavy shipping and air losses... I whould be able to take a good portion of the map..
I do nopt have the figurres for losses.. and the CR is so far of in FOW, and I didn't really want to spend the time to look at the loses.. but all my units where at 100 prep and I used two force HQ also at 100. just incase one was torpedoed

here is the latest

IWO FALLS

Ground combat at 43,40

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 79063 troops, 826 guns, 3 vehicles

Defending force 96002 troops, 644 guns, 0 vehicles



Allied ground losses:
105 casualties reported
Guns lost 1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 40,39

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 49483 troops, 471 guns, 7 vehicles

Defending force 5211 troops, 17 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 91 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
36 casualties reported
Guns lost 4

Allied ground losses:
495 casualties reported
Guns lost 12


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Iwo Jima

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 26466 troops, 59 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 127343 troops, 1150 guns, 1089 vehicles



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Iwo Jima

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 116047 troops, 1147 guns, 951 vehicles

Defending force 30576 troops, 59 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 4

Allied assault odds: 13 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied forces CAPTURE Iwo Jima base !!!


Japanese aircraft
no flights

No Japanese losses

Japanese ground losses:
1272 casualties reported
Guns lost 16

Allied ground losses:
554 casualties reported
Guns lost 23
Vehicles lost 2


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Manila

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 466820 troops, 3304 guns, 3813 vehicles

Defending force 20789 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 775 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
34391 casualties reported
Guns lost 250

Allied ground losses:
33 casualties reported
Guns lost 5


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Kiungahan

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 14764 troops, 86 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 6496 troops, 37 guns, 0 vehicles



Allied ground losses:
76 casualties reported
Guns lost 16


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Bataan

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 27608 troops, 186 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 30797 troops, 67 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
323 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Allied ground losses:
458 casualties reported
Guns lost 22

[freeboy]

Fyi the points now,after the capture and destruction of 9% the Minilla garrison.. 250k troops not estimated at 35k,, and the IWO capture.. Z has around 50 k and I have around 39 k a11 k difference.. not it was 18 k not too long ago..
I could get another 1000k apx for htose bases gaum Siapan etc and about 1000 for taiwand and anouther 4000 for coastal china.. hk at around 800 and Shanghi at around 2800 as I recall.. but Tokyo is a wopping 15k!.. plus destruction on industries and he still has a ton of merchant ships and naval ships.. I expenct at least on more big naval battle before this ends

[Tom Hunter]

I am afraid I may be mis interpreted when I write about winning and the point score. I don't think freeboy or Zeta is winning, I really can't tell.

That is one of the reasons I am watching this game closely is to try and figure out who is winning, and set some benchmarks for future games. This is interesting in part because its so hard to really tell who is winning.

Freeboy when are you going for the 15k points in Tokyo? [:D]

[freeboy]

nice happy pix

[freeboy]

Tom, actual svcore as of 11-09-44 51487 40547, for you strangers that use a different dating system that is November 9th..
My point is that we are BOTH WINNIG!.. each is having fun, and each is struggling to do do the best they can...
If I add the Islands in PAcific and Formosa, and not China.. that would leave me at about 63k short, plus every point he gets I need two of... per the official standards of winning and lossing.. the 2-1 ratio...I do not see how gettig supplies to the Chineeese and taking HK hurts.. but at what price? that price went way up as Z withdrew .. but those troops are also weary from marching and low supply in viet area...

[freeboy]

Z pulls out two raids.. one works!
Night Time Surface Combat, near Iwo Jima at 63,53

Japanese Ships
DD Kuri, Shell hits 16, on fire, heavy damage
DD Wakatake, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Kuretake, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
DD Sanae, Shell hits 1
DD Asagao, Shell hits 1
DD Hiyodori, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
DD Cony, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Cowell
DD Sigsbee
DD Aylwin, Shell hits 2
DE Eichenberger
MSW Revenge
MSW Oracle
MSW Token
MSW Ardent
LST LST-16
LST LST-17
LST LST-19
LST LST-20
LST LST-632
LST LST-634
LST LST-643
LCI LCI-621
LCI LCI-622
LCI LCI-624
LCI LCI-625
LCI LCI-628
LCI LCI-636
LCT LCT-133
LCT LCT-140
LCT LCT-141
LCT LCT-145
LCT LCT-148
LCT LCT-149
LCT LCT-152
LCT LCT-160
LCT LCT-163
LCT LCT-164
LCT LCT-166
LCT LCT-167
LCT LCT-168
LCT LCT-170
LCT LCT-173
LCT LCT-175
LCT LCT-176
LCT LCT-177
LCT LCT-178
LCT LCT-179
LCT LCT-326
LCT LCT-327
LCT LCT-328
LCT LCT-330
LCT LCT-351
LCT LCT-352
LCT LCT-353
LCT LCT-354
LCT LCT-355
LCT LCT-356
LCT LCT-357
LCT LCT-464


these results where less enthusiastic..:


Day Air attack on TF at 91,56

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 54
D4Y Judy x 107
B6N Jill x 12
B7A Grace x 85

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y Judy: 2 damaged
B6N Jill: 2 damaged
B7A Grace: 2 destroyed, 12 damaged

Allied Ships
LST LST-702, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
LST LST-703, Bomb hits 1, on fire
LSM LSM-138, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
LCI LCI-784, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
LST LST-708, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
LSM LSM-139
LST LST-712
LST LST-776, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
LSM LSM-133, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AR Jason, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
LST LST-701, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
LCI LCI-782, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
LST LST-912, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
LSM LSM-131
DE Bright, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
LST LST-715
MSW Serene, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
LST LST-711, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
LST LST-910
MSW Strength, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
LCI LCI-783
LST LST-704, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
LST LST-705, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

he hit this group four times.. glad they where empty

[freeboy]

Z is headed home, must have sortied his whole fleat.. He missed several carriers on rout to pearl for refits and rest and badk to SF, by about a week!
we may have anouther 1945 CV battler if they come out again.. but where is their home port?
Base fell in Isaland near HK? Kiungihan..
not much else...
Troops getting new orders and planning for the next big push

[freeboy]

I remember a thread way back about directional searches.. boy woyld I like that now.. Cannot find my ass with both hands, its that stupid invisi-paint I sold Zeta16![:-]

Anyway I put half my 29's on sea search, I mean come on, how hard is it to find 35 ships headed towards japan? storms?
not much else exceipt Zeta raided Iwo without escort, thats gotta hurt:

[Tom Hunter]

He is a clever inscrutable Jap that Zeta16.

[freeboy]

It is interestingif I had less army units and sealift how close to even we would fight.. as is he runs, I chase, I find he slaps, I sla[p back he runs some more... I think he crashed for the night, so maybe we will start to see some land strategic air attacks soon..[:D]

[AdmNelson]

I remember a thread way back about directional searches.. boy woyld I like that now.. Cannot find my ass with both hands, its that stupid invisi-paint I sold Zeta16!

ORIGINAL: freeboy

Seams you sold the paint for all of his games. Two carriers of the my KB ran into his carriers escorting a convoy to Suva never saw them till the airstrike. To say the least they didn't make it home to see the cherry blossoms. It has been fun watching the AAR

[freeboy]

At least a2a I am taking him down consistantly at 2-1
next turn introducing more heavies and some night raideres