Bugs and oddities, V3.101 and editwir

[Mika Väliviita]

No idea if you already know these, but here they are:

1.The Soviet tank brigade reforming is strange in general, but the biggest problem is the 1st unit in the database, I've seen it reform from Valentine to a KV to another KV model then back to Valentine, all this while no other unit gets reformed.

2.When performing artillery bombardment, it sometimes seems like enemy returns fire with AT and FLAK guns (in addition to normal artillery). I'd think they couldn't fire indirect (efficiently anyway).

3.Combat results, especially aircraft losses, are strange. You get some number watching combat on medium display at the bottom, another in the "combat report" afterwards, and the end of turn summary gives a third number. All three are sometimes different, even considering the damaged aircraft. Fog of war to the max.

4.I used editwir to fix the replacement bug effects, and noticed that the losses from the start of the war were reset.

5.Using Alt+r I noticed that on 1/42 report the amount of recon vehicles was double that of the previous (and the next) turn. And there is no way ingame to see your recon production (apart from checking every city) or pool.

6.Rail transfer has some problems, I've managed to use it to a nonrail hex, and sometimes I can't use it on some railhex (where I already used it that turn) while making a new corps on the next hex works normally.

7.I destroyed a German Army HQ, and thereafter germans occasionally bombed Sweden from that hex.

8.Trying to plot movement from an empty hex crashes the game.

9.I saw this when USAAF bombed Florence once: "light sustained Moderate damage".

10.The conversion of old tanks has a limit of 1024 (and its multiples) above which the pool only goes down to x*1024+3. You can avoid this by putting these tanks to use so that their pool goes below the limit and the conversion continues until the next limit. This only happens rarely since you don't usually have that many in pool.

11.Alt+r shows captured factories as 0-sized heavy industry.

12.With max help you get SL 10 on snow turn, when the manual says this should only happen on clear turns. Maybe this is intentional since snow is clear compared to blizzard.

13.Putting extra flak on airfields doesn't count, they always have 200 when attacked.

14.Those I mentioned in the replacement bug thread.

Mika

[Yogi Yohan]

This is more of an oddity, oversight or whatever, but Bialystock should have some Oil production, perhaps 10-15. Since the Germans will capture it early, I would eliminate the oil income of other Polish German-held cities and concentrate their oil income to Bialystok.

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by Mika Väliviita:

3.Combat results, especially aircraft losses, are strange. You get some number watching combat on medium display at the bottom, another in the "combat report" afterwards, and the end of turn summary gives a third number. All three are sometimes different, even considering the damaged aircraft. Fog of war to the max.

4.I used editwir to fix the replacement bug effects, and noticed that the losses from the start of the war were reset.

6.Rail transfer has some problems, I've managed to use it to a nonrail hex, and sometimes I can't use it on some railhex (where I already used it that turn) while making a new corps on the next hex works normally.

8.Trying to plot movement from an empty hex crashes the game.

9.I saw this when USAAF bombed Florence once: "light sustained Moderate damage".

12.With max help you get SL 10 on snow turn, when the manual says this should only happen on clear turns. Maybe this is intentional since snow is clear compared to blizzard.

13.Putting extra flak on airfields doesn't count, they always have 200 when attacked.

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The above are already known.

#4 isn't technically a bug, as editwir was never meant to be used on save game files, only on scenario files. I've told Arnaud that if we just fix this one problem then editwir can be officially used on save files because it works 100% on everything else, but it was also pointed out to me that doing this opens the door for some serious cheating, as for right now, messing with the save file with editwir leaves a tell-tale clue, i.e. the "bug" you're seeing. There are other things we can do in this situation to correct things, but for now this "bug" is not a priority to anyone else but me.

#12 doesn't seem to be a bug to me, I don't know what the manual says, but blitz supply during bad weather is not totally unreasonable. In any event, its an oversight that doesn't *really* need fixing. %99 of us will not use max help for the Germans, unless the Germans are controlled by the AI, in which case you should *expect* bizarre behavior by the game. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

#13 is not a bug. Land unit flak has never contributed to the flak defense of a city the flak unit is in, and vice-versa, strategic bombing has no effect on land units. We see no compelling reason to change this, as the flak units in the game are *meant* to be in military units, not home-defense flak batteries, which are represented in the game by the 200 flak strength you see.

The rest I'll tack on the list and check later. Please note: you guys could help us a lot better if you can send saved-games that show the bugs in action. If a saved game can repeat the bug, it makes it *much* easier to fix by Arnaud.

[Mika Väliviita]

Regarding the flak issue, I wasn't talking about strategic attacks, but airfield attacks, in case there was a misunderstanding. Anyway, any flak I place there gets moved to some corps sooner or later.

The german army that was bombing sweden was offmap when I checked with editwir.

Question:Artillery production goes to artillery pool entirely, where do the at and flak guns come from? Are they preset, or related to artillery production?

Another bug, when doing special supply that gives extra equipment, the division size isn't updated until next turn or save-reload.

As for savegames, I don't currently have upload access, since I'm using public access terminals.

Mika

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by Mika Väliviita:
Regarding the flak issue, I wasn't talking about strategic attacks, but airfield attacks, in case there was a misunderstanding. Anyway, any flak I place there gets moved to some corps sooner or later.

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Right. What I should have said is that flak in a land combat unit is only counted in Interdiction attacks against that land unit, nothing else (except Ground Attack, but that's not a player directed mission).

The german army that was bombing sweden was offmap when I checked with editwir.

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Did you save a game prior to destroying that HQ?

Question:Artillery production goes to artillery pool entirely, where do the at and flak guns come from? Are they preset, or related to artillery production?

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They are derived from Artillery production, yes.

Another bug, when doing special supply that gives extra equipment, the division size isn't updated until next turn or save-reload.

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Yes, this is true for a number of situations.

As for savegames, I don't currently have upload access, since I'm using public access terminals.

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Now that's a problem. <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> Do these machines have a floppy drive, or are they diskless? If they have a floppy drive you could stick the file on the floppy and attach it to an email with the path being "A:\MYFILE" or whatever.

[ October 26, 2001: Message edited by: Ed Cogburn ]</p>

[moi]

Hello,

Additional bugs:

1. After destroying Karelian Finnish Army and OKH, Its units are showing in report (Alt-R). If I place KFA or OKH on map it including this units already.
2. AI don't recreate destroyed HQ.
3. If Red Army cross railroad Germany-Italy, that Italy is captured and soutn of Italy is coloring in red (but Italian Front "Fighting in Africa").

Production bugs:
5. Production of TB-3 was finished before 1941 (some years ago)
6. SB was replaced with Pe-2 (not Il-4) (but I'm not so shure)
7. All production of Mig-1 was 100 (no more)
8. Su-76 was Assault Gun (not Light Tank Destroyer)
9. Production of KV-II was more small than in game.

Sorry for my terrible english

Regards,
moi

[Mika Väliviita]

Couple more bugs, these were seen with max help for computer German.

Computer did a 'unit marching' behind my lines, several times. First time I noticed this when I plotted an attack out of Tula leaving that city empty. After combat the frontline was solid there but the computer marched a korps into the city, and on my turn it showed SL as if it was in my control. Turn after that the enemy was at SL 0. Later it happened to a noncity hex. This was during snow/blizzard.

Computer can place more than 1 corps in a single hex. I made one retreat, then on the next pulse there was another in the same hex. Checking the save before combat with editwir, there indeed were two corps in the same hex.

The blizzard effect is bad for Germans. One turn there was snow after blizzard and Germans were very strong. Next turn was blizzard again, and I shattered 10.000+ squads worth of corps, 90% of the frontline.

Dropped bomb tonnages is one thing that doesn't match in bottom screen vs. combat report. For a while it looked like klbs vs. tons, but that turned around later.

I saw a PzKorps plot a full 5 steps and next all those hexes were at SL 1, while I thought they would run out of supply range. This with max help on of course.

As for nitpicking <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> , you can 2x 1st Guards Tank Bde etc. because the switch of type in April '42. Also some of the Russian armor subunits have the "name" 1 Tank bde, but maybe that's how it really was.

Mika

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by Mika Väliviita:
Couple more bugs, these were seen with max help for computer German.

Computer did a 'unit marching' behind my lines, several times. First time I noticed this when I plotted an attack out of Tula leaving that city empty. After combat the frontline was solid there but the computer marched a korps into the city, and on my turn it showed SL as if it was in my control. Turn after that the enemy was at SL 0. Later it happened to a noncity hex. This was during snow/blizzard.

Computer can place more than 1 corps in a single hex. I made one retreat, then on the next pulse there was another in the same hex. Checking the save before combat with editwir, there indeed were two corps in the same hex.

Dropped bomb tonnages is one thing that doesn't match in bottom screen vs. combat report. For a while it looked like klbs vs. tons, but that turned around later.

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Yes, these are all known.

The blizzard effect is bad for Germans. One turn there was snow after blizzard and Germans were very strong. Next turn was blizzard again, and I shattered 10.000+ squads worth of corps, 90% of the frontline.

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Interesting. My guess is the AI doesn't know about the shattering problem, and is cheating a lot by improving units with a lot of special supply. Did you save this game?

I saw a PzKorps plot a full 5 steps and next all those hexes were at SL 1, while I thought they would run out of supply range. This with max help on of course.

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Never seen this, it must be a cheat allowed when Max Help is used.

As for nitpicking <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> , you can 2x 1st Guards Tank Bde etc. because the switch of type in April '42. Also some of the Russian armor subunits have the "name" 1 Tank bde, but maybe that's how it really was.

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I don't understand what you're saying here, sorry.

[Mika Väliviita]

No saves, sorry. The shattering was at about 5000+ squads for several blizzard turns before that one I mentioned.

What I mean is that when a tank rgt becomes a guards tank rgt, and in April '42 many of the rgts become bdes, it retains guards status. But then the renaming to guards starts at one again for the normal rgts that are now bdes.

The other part was that while most of the Soviet armor units are numbered normally, there are several that are all just "1 tank rgt". So I was wondering if these were just thrown together units without official titles.

Mika

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by Mika Väliviita:
No saves, sorry. The shattering was at about 5000+ squads for several blizzard turns before that one I mentioned.

What I mean is that when a tank rgt becomes a guards tank rgt, and in April '42 many of the rgts become bdes, it retains guards status. But then the renaming to guards starts at one again for the normal rgts that are now bdes.

The other part was that while most of the Soviet armor units are numbered normally, there are several that are all just "1 tank rgt". So I was wondering if these were just thrown together units without official titles.

Mika

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Ok, I'll look at this and pass it on. And Moi, I got your stuff too.

[Erik Rutins]

Hello all,

Great job on WIR! I occasionally download your latest and fire it up as a break from other Matrix work. The latest version with Rich's new icons kept me quite engrossed, excellent wargaming and a fine update of Gary's classic.

I did notice one crash bug, this was on a Win 98SE system running the default windows installation of WIR 3.101. I was adjusting the replacement level for OKW and OKH when I accidentally hit the number 6 on the numeric keypad (I was using the +/- on the keypad to adjust the level). This immediately closed the game and sent me back to the windows desktop without any crash message, etc. I tested this five or six times and found it to be completely reproducible. I found this also happens on my Windows 2000 system, which runs WIR 3.101 just fine otherwise.

Keep up the good work!

Regards,

- Erik

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by Erik Rutins:
Hello all,

Great job on WIR! I occasionally download your latest and fire it up as a break from other Matrix work. The latest version with Rich's new icons kept me quite engrossed, excellent wargaming and a fine update of Gary's classic.

I did notice one crash bug, this was on a Win 98SE system running the default windows installation of WIR 3.101. I was adjusting the replacement level for OKW and OKH when I accidentally hit the number 6 on the numeric keypad (I was using the +/- on the keypad to adjust the level). This immediately closed the game and sent me back to the windows desktop without any crash message, etc. I tested this five or six times and found it to be completely reproducible. I found this also happens on my Windows 2000 system, which runs WIR 3.101 just fine otherwise.

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Yes, this bug is known too. The interesting thing is it isn't the same for all players. For example, '6' doesn't cause a crash for me, but '9' does. Go figure. The type of HQ may play a role too, but that's just a suspicion of mine.