Maximum combat values?

[heiks]

Having done some quick research (by setting replace levels to 100% and running the game without doing anything until late -42) I've come up with following figures as a maximum combat calue of a "normal unit" of its kind.

To get the actual total you need to add the cv:s of the attached battalions (if any).

The values shown below are calculated using the formula: squads + artillery + at + flak + recon + 3 * tanks, which appears to be the formula used in the game to compute the cv:s for divisions.

Soviet

Type CV
Rifle division 386
Cavalry division 393
Tank Regiment/Brigade (this is a tough one as the variation is huge... all the way from 70 to 200)
Artillery 112
Antitank 48
Airborne division 351
Mountain division 353
Tank corps 241
Mech corps 431

German (+ Finnish)

Infantry Division 373 (350)
Artillery 110
Flak 110
Antitank 48
Panzer Bn 225
Stug Bn 135
JPz Bn 135
Panzer Division 470
Motorized division 440
PzG Division 460

... there are two problems with my approach. First, there appears to be no strict maximums for teh numbers of squads etc. Second, the replacements appear to be distributed in increments of ten, so getting excact figures is quite difficult.

There was a post on the forum about some of these values (mostly german) some time in the past, and it seems, that at least those values matched mine quite closely. The only difference was in the german infantry division.

If you have corremctions, more accurate information, suggestions for a better method to get the values, please do post them.

[Mist]

Hello Heiks!
Here is the formula for CV which I've figured out of my observation:
1 for each squad and recon
1/6 for each gun
3 for each tank.
However, little different rule is used in combat.
For example each recon adds 2 to attacked or defender. Arty adds nothing and ATG adds 1 to defender. Tanks add 3 for each for both attacker and defender.
You can recalculate CV's using these data.

[Svar]

The combat value you are quoting is the one listed inside a korps shell. Unfortunately the real CV is the one you are quoting modified by the experience and readiness of a particular unit. Also, the maximum number of a particular type of equipment or squad is really some minimum threshold number plus an increment of AI reinforcement. The increment of AI reinforcement is a function of the pool level for that particular type of equipment or squad. To really find the maximum you need to discover the threshold number such as 199 squads for an infantry division and the increment of AI reinforcement such as 30 squads if the squad pool is under 10000. I think the increment of AI reinforcement is 60 squads if the squad pool is over 10000.

I haven't looked at this recently but I remember seeing as many as 51 vehicles in a Stug Bn which would give you a CV of 153. I also remember seeing as many as 82 vehicles in a Pz Bn which would give you a CV of 246. When numbers like this appear there is usually a surplus of those vehicles in the pool. The numbers you have quoted for divisions is the sum of a number of different types of equipment and squads so the theoretical maximum number would be the sum of the maximum number for each of those.

For quick research you are probably pretty close but I'm sure that if a contest were held people could find isolated cases where the numbers are higher in almost all of your listed categories.

Svar

[Yogi Yohan]

Panzer Battallions can have as many as 84 vehicles, since they will accept 10 replacements if they have 74 but not if they have 75.

JPz and StuG battallions can have as many as 54 vehicles, but I have never seen more than 48 in an AT battallion.

I think you should consider 84/54 to be "establishment strenght" for these units (and for Waffen-SS Panzer Battallions its actually quite accurate).

A quicker way of maxing the AFV count in the battallions is to use special supply.

[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: Yogi Yohan ]</p>

[heiks]

Originally posted by Mist:
Hello Heiks!
Here is the formula for CV which I've figured out of my observation:
1 for each squad and recon
1/6 for each gun
3 for each tank.
However, little different rule is used in combat.
For example each recon adds 2 to attacked or defender. Arty adds nothing and ATG adds 1 to defender. Tanks add 3 for each for both attacker and defender.
You can recalculate CV's using these data.

---

Are these for the cv shown on the bottom right corner of the screen when you select a korps or a hq?
If so, this is most useful information.

[heiks]

Originally posted by Svar:
The combat value you are quoting is the one listed inside a korps shell. Unfortunately the real CV is the one you are quoting modified by the experience and readiness of a particular unit.


I'm aware of this and yes the values were indeed intended to be those shown inside the korps shell.
What I'm looking for is the combat value of an unit at (or close to) its TO&E strength, ignoring readiness and experience, so that I could compute a relative combat capability based on the formula actualCV/maxCV * experience/100 * readiness*100. This would be used in the WiRAssistant project for color coding unit names.


Also, the maximum number of a particular type of equipment or squad is really some minimum threshold number plus an increment of AI reinforcement. The increment of AI reinforcement is a function of the pool level for that particular type of equipment or squad. To really find the maximum you need to discover the threshold number such as 199 squads for an infantry division and the increment of AI reinforcement such as 30 squads if the squad pool is under 10000. I think the increment of AI reinforcement is 60 squads if the squad pool is over 10000.


I had no idea it was that complicated... Do you possibly have at least some of those figures stored somewhere? I'd be curious to see how this thing works and to figure out some reasonable cv figures. Although I would assume that the values I've got would work ok for my purposes.


I haven't looked at this recently but I remember seeing as many as 51 vehicles in a Stug Bn which would give you a CV of 153. I also remember seeing as many as 82 vehicles in a Pz Bn which would give you a CV of 246. When numbers like this appear there is usually a surplus of those vehicles in the pool. The numbers you have quoted for divisions is the sum of a number of different types of equipment and squads so the theoretical maximum number would be the sum of the maximum number for each of those.

For quick research you are probably pretty close but I'm sure that if a contest were held people could find isolated cases where the numbers are higher in almost all of your listed categories.

Svar

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You're absolutely right, even I could come up with several exceptions to those figures from the save file I got those figures from, but I don't think I need any really excact figures, just a reasonable estimate.

[Mist]

Originally posted by heiks:


Are these for the cv shown on the bottom right corner of the screen when you select a korps or a hq?
If so, this is most useful information.

---

yes, these values are summed taking into account experience and readiness. Displayed CV is total divided by 10. For example tank bn consisting of 80 tanks will have max CV 24.