MiG-1, the fighter that wasn't, and MiG-3, that was a lot

Yogi Yohan · Post by **Yogi Yohan** » Thu Oct 25, 2001 3:52 am

I found while searching for performance data that of the MiG-1, only 100 were built due to their handling and maneuvrability being "totally unacceptable". Yet in the WIR 1941 campaign the Soviets have more than 800 MiG-1s.

Also, apparently, the Soviets were producing 175 MiG-3s a week in the Zavod 1 factory by June 1941, and 90% of the modern fighters (Yak-1, LaGG-3 and MiG-3) in service at the time of Barbarossa were MiG-3s.

It seems the campaign 41 OOB needs some more reworking...

Read an article on the MiGs at Sturmvogel

[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: Yogi Yohan ]</p>

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Thu Oct 25, 2001 12:18 pm

Originally posted by Yogi Yohan:
I found while searching for performance data that of the MiG-1

I'll pass this on.

Yogi Yohan · Post by **Yogi Yohan** » Thu Oct 25, 2001 3:32 pm

I have now learnt (at WW II Warbirds ) that most of the 100 MiG-1s had been lost to accidents (it was THAT terrible to fly) by the time Barbarossa began. It looks to me like the MiG-1 should be dropped entirely from the OOB.

RickyB · Post by **RickyB** » Thu Oct 25, 2001 7:19 pm

I have similar data about the number of air units using these planes on June 22. The Yak 1 appears to have been used by just one squadron or similar unit, while the Mig 3 seems to have been the second most popular plane at that time in air units, behind the I16 I believe. On the other hand, the plane types almost always have to represent some minor plane types that are not in the game at all. I don't know on this though, Arnaud is the keeper of this data.

IKerensky · Post by **IKerensky** » Thu Oct 25, 2001 9:47 pm

Europa OOB ( that have the reputation of being of the best existing )give to URSS:

JUNE II 1941 :

1 Mig 1 squadron
12 Mig 3 squadron
26 I 16 squadron
4 Yak 1 squadron
3 Lagg3 (Night and day fighter ) squadron

out of the 91 avaliable VVS squadron

All of them avaliable in the West Russia ( I.e discounting the East ones ). OF course they number several other squadron but they are out of this topic.

SO IIRC the squadron are set to 50-60 planes for VVS in Europa gaming so that make 50 Mig1 for 600 Mig3 all serviceable and crewed.

Guess this can be a good info... even if it dont take the frame not crewed ( but half the total avaliable, half out seems good for air unit. ).

Hope this numbers an help. Eventually I can give all te others models number ( at least 20 other kind , and the East ones too ).

[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: Ivan GREYWOLF Kerensky ]</p>

Ranger-75 · Post by **Ranger-75** » Fri Oct 26, 2001 8:35 am

Thanks for the link yogi <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Ivan, What Europa are you talking about, the Game Designers Workshop boardgame set? That's old and while I have all of the originals (Drang Nach Osten & Unitscheiden (or whatever)) and most of the second set (Fire in the East & Scorched Earth) , I gave up on it since they all went out of print and the damn maps take up an entire large room. That plus I would have to retire to actually play it (and then since I would have no money I would lose my large room to keep the game).

I did however like setting up all the Panzer divisions and air groups, etc., and once I actially particpiated in a large team play of the game, but I was very young then and I was given command on only the Rumanian army in the far south. Inept leadership on my high command lost eventually lost the game. I later tried setting it up in my attic but nobodo wanted to sweat it out up there so we packed it all in. Now it's in boxes in my garage.

Are we talking about the same game??

RickyB · Post by **RickyB** » Fri Oct 26, 2001 7:04 pm

Originally posted by Mike Santos:
Thanks for the link yogi <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Ivan, What Europa are you talking about, the Game Designers Workshop boardgame set? That's old and while I have all of the originals (Drang Nach Osten & Unitscheiden (or whatever)) and most of the second set (Fire in the East & Scorched Earth) , I gave up on it since they all went out of print and the damn maps take up an entire large room. That plus I would have to retire to actually play it (and then since I would have no money I would lose my large room to keep the game).

I did however like setting up all the Panzer divisions and air groups, etc., and once I actially particpiated in a large team play of the game, but I was very young then and I was given command on only the Rumanian army in the far south. Inept leadership on my high command lost eventually lost the game. I later tried setting it up in my attic but nobodo wanted to sweat it out up there so we packed it all in. Now it's in boxes in my garage.

Are we talking about the same game??

Hi Mike,

I am sure he is talking the FITE/Scorched Earth games. I have them and they show these numbers. I played it before I got married a lot. I just posted it on a wall (a large sheet of plywood would probably work also to move it away or fold out and back up) and used model masking clay to stick the units to the map. A big problem then was having to stand up and sit down to play the different parts of the map. Of course, the worst problem was hearing the units fall off the map sometimes, and then trying to figure out where they started. This worked really well actually, except for the discomfort. A hinged plywood board would have probably solved that though, and been accessible on three sides anyway.

IKerensky · Post by **IKerensky** » Fri Oct 26, 2001 8:41 pm

or you can just go this url
http://www.microteam.fi/jet/

and bless this guy for all of his work.
Yes I am talking about the Europa System. FITE is a bit old but never outdated ( especially with the Urals set ), and tehre is a new edition coming in a few months.

I would suggest you to use the Jet program ( see URL ) so you can play easily all and every one of the wargams/scenario, the only bad thing is I love much the visual and contact of paper and carboard.

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Sat Oct 27, 2001 12:52 pm

Originally posted by RickyB:
I played it before I got married a lot.

Oh my goodness. Ricky, don't leave yourself so wide open like this. I could REALLY have some fun with a sentence like that! <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

[ October 27, 2001: Message edited by: Ed Cogburn ]</p>

RickyB · Post by **RickyB** » Sat Oct 27, 2001 7:11 pm

Oops. Well can I help if I like to get married a lot? Now let's just drop it, please <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> o rmy wife might wonder what is going on.

Josans · Post by **Josans** » Sun Oct 28, 2001 5:04 am

For those more interested in the OOBs and technical datas from Europa Series I recommend the Europa Magazine that updated OOB for many countries and have many new scenarios.

Btw Mike I also played a multiplayer gaming of Fite/Scorched Earth with more of 20 people fighting from Russia to Lybia.I got the command of AGS and you know the tough the russians are in the south...Really it was superb!!